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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2327 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:48 am Post subject: 1 piece vs. 2 piece |
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This is not really a question nor a poll, but an observation of my experience and curiosity of what other's might be...
In an effort to have the ability to change backbores but keep the rim and cup that I like, I have picked up 2 piece versions of my mouthpiece(s), BUT have found that in most, if not all, cases I prefer the sound and playability of the 1 piece over the 2 piece (same rim, cup, and backbore in side-by-side comparisons) The only difference is the ability to take them apart.
Not only with the Curry pieces I play now, but other brands/makers, all modifications made by the mouthpiece company or a reputable craftsman. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Agreed, this is something I've noticed at times too - there's a definite difference in response and feedback, though I'm not completely convinced it's obvious from "out front".
Having said that, if I feel more comfortable and hear myself better without the audience noticing any difference at all, I'd be mad not to want that surely? |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1531 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:37 am Post subject: One piece |
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Hello all,
I would have to ask if the gap is the same from the two piece to the one piece. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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hello
have you been at ITG this year and been able to try the new Marcinkiewicz 2 pieces mpcs ?
thanks |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: |
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I've been playing Warburtons for years. I clock the pieces and they work fine for me.
Pete |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2327 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: Re: One piece |
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Christian K. Peters wrote: | Hello all,
I would have to ask if the gap is the same from the two piece to the one piece. |
nope. Gap the same.. all things equal except for 1 piece vs. 2 piece (Warburton style)
Quote: | I've been playing Warburtons for years. I clock the pieces and they work fine for me.
Pete |
I'm not saying they don't work, just that, with all other aspects equal, I notice a difference and prefer the same mouthpiece in a 1 piece design. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: |
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No, you are not crazy. There is a difference in how multi-piece mouthpieces play compared to a single-piece. As you move away from a single, solid piece of metal you begin to loose efficiency somewhat. Interchangeable rims, cups, backbones, gap sleeves, etc can be a way to find what you like (or at least experiment), but once you find something that works it will probably work better in a one-piece. Many people will permanently solder a Reeves Sleeve to a given mouthpiece after finding the one that works best in whatever horn for this reason... |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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JoeLoeffler wrote: | No, you are not crazy. There is a difference in how multi-piece mouthpieces play compared to a single-piece. As you move away from a single, solid piece of metal you begin to loose efficiency somewhat. Interchangeable rims, cups, backbones, gap sleeves, etc can be a way to find what you like (or at least experiment), but once you find something that works it will probably work better in a one-piece. Many people will permanently solder a Reeves Sleeve to a given mouthpiece after finding the one that works best in whatever horn for this reason... |
Makes a lot of sense. Good post Joe.
After reading the O/P the first thought which hit me was.
"Of course the single piece will have some advantages. After all aren't those huge weighted "mega-tone" mouthpieces designed specifically to solidify the mouthpiece structure?
For some reason I want to select the term. "Stationary inertia". This basic and fundamental law was outlined and explained by Newton. Is the famous second half of Newton's law.
A. "An object in motion has the tendency to stay in motion unless some other force. Here with the soldering of the selected rims, back-bore etc we see the second half or,
B. "An object at rest has a tendency to stay at rest until some other force is exerted on the object".
We can also infer from part "B" that the greater the weight of "B" is the more it will resist being moved.
Or on the case of "A "?
The more it ("A") will resist the effect put upon it by an outside source.
Thus applying this theory to mouthpieces? Go ahead and compare the solid piece to the two or three piece mouthpieces.
However I'll just bet that the three piece item rattles. Also I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state that although the manufacturer insists that his three or two piece cup is of the finest quality? I'll bet that not everything lines up dead perfect every time. If only the easily noticed discrepancy between the bottom of the cup's bowl and the size of the throat.
Shucks , since the width size of the throat is changeable? Then it only stands to reason that the cup can not line up dead perfect with every throat.
Goodness! Sometimes I think that these kinds of posts may even add to the confusion. Without the least intending it.. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Locutus2k Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Rome, Italy
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:46 am Post subject: |
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This is something i've experienced myself and with Curry pieces, just like you. The very same mouthpiece plays diffeent in 1 piece Vs 2 piece configuration. Not sure what i like best, but there is a difference on my side.
I must add that the very same piece plays VERY different in various blank configuration. A Curry heavy blank is a totally different mouthpice than a Curry standard piece or Blackjack and since i have all my mouthpieces cut for Reeves sleeves no, is not gap related. _________________ ------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Locutus2k wrote: | I must add that the very same piece plays VERY different in various blank configuration. | +1...this was my first thought- I've played G. Black and Warburton pieces (both 1 and 2 piece)
and noticed there is a slight difference in weight. Black tops are visually different then the one
piece design, which might account for this, and the response...everything affects everything.
Now I'm curious and will test this theory after work! |
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ML52K Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 148 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I recall this being a basic tenet of GR Mouthpieces:
any separations of the mouthpiece structure creates discontinuities.
These are probably not his exact words, I didn't look at his webpage, but I do remember posts/discussions about the concept and I hope I have relayed the concept accurately.
I believe this information can be found on grmouthpieces.com |
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Bstradivarius Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2017 Posts: 146 Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:28 am Post subject: |
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I like both one piece and two piece. I just happened to have a grest two-piece mouthpiece for me, so I prefer it. _________________ Jon J
Principal trumpet - Symphony Orchestra
Soloist
Brass Quintet
Brass choir |
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loudog Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2001 Posts: 1444 Location: Hastings, NE
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:43 am Post subject: |
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It's like anything...some things work for some folks, and some things don't.
I've used two piece mouthpieces for years (Greg Black, followed by Pickett, and now Parke). I play professionally and teach at a college...they work just fine for me.
I tend to focus less on how the mouthpieces play individually (as well as compared to others), and more on what I sound like when I play them. For me, the Parkes have been incredible.
I have both one piece and two piece models, and the difference is negligible. But, with anything, your mileage may vary. I always suggest to worry less about the equipment though, and more on just sounding the way you want to sound! _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Just about a year ago, Ivan Hunter, of JaegerBrass, posted an interesting article about some of the manufacturing advantages and acoustic disadvantages of multi-part mouthpieces: http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2017/6/multi-part-mouthpieces-1.html
Perhaps this will shed some light on what the OP has experienced between 'dialed-in' one-piece mouthpieces and the analogous parts assembled through two-part configurations.
Happy buzzzzzzing!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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