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Fast trumpet vs. slow trumpet



 
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Fast trumpet vs. slow trumpet Reply with quote

What makes one trumpet easier to articulate faster on for a given player over another? Assuming same mouthpiece? Is it overall weight? Bell material thickness? Perhaps it is the "responsiveness" quality of a horn that peot talk about. I'm asking because I'm shopping for a new horn and want one that won't get in the way of, relatively speaking, pieces like Procession of the Nobles, Russian Easter etc.

Thanks
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
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I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece

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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Fast trumpet vs. slow trumpet Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
What makes one trumpet easier to articulate faster on for a given player over another? Assuming same mouthpiece? Is it overall weight? Bell material thickness? Perhaps it is the "responsiveness" quality of a horn that peot talk about. I'm asking because I'm shopping for a new horn and want one that won't get in the way of, relatively speaking, pieces like Procession of the Nobles, Russian Easter etc.

Thanks

Are you also assuming the gap is the same?

I look forward to informed answers, but FWIW will speculate...

The gap could make a difference, as might the interactions between the backbore of the mouthpiece and the taper of the leadpipe.

The percieved backpressure/openness might also have an effect.

Just a few quick thoughts.
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PW-Factor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The synergy of components is very important in trumpet. I have found I love a mouthpiece on one horn, and hate it on another. That my tuning tendencies are different based on combinations, as is the feel of the scale/range.

In my personal experience working with Roy Lawler on a custom horn, I found the leadpipe had a significant change on the "speed" of playing, as well as the resistance. Speed comes from more resistance, but too much can tire you out. I learned that the hard way with my Jupiter 1600i. I love my M bore Martin with a larger mouthpiece for what I play that horn for, but for "lead" playing, I never quite acclimated to the M bore Jupiter. I guess I just blow in a way that isn't conducive. I found myself getting tired a lot quicker, likely from the backpressure.

Back to articulation. The mouthpiece and leadpipe will have a lot to do with it. If you like your sound, then I'd recommend working on "puu" attacks. No tongue, just try to engage your embouchure immediately and play softly. It can go a long way towards clean articulation.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fer'instance, with the same mouthpiece (Conny 5CW and Kelly 7C), I can articulate faster on my 1955 Olds Special than on my Conn 10B. 10B resembles a 38B but has exposed coprion leadpipe and bell. .438 bore. Is all that copper on the Conn making the horn sluggish? Or do the nickel valve uppers on the Special make the bell more responsive? Inquiring minds want to know!
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece

www.jazzscales.org

The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say we start with a mouthpiece that is cut for sleeves and we adjust the various horns for optimum gap, individually.

General statement: Mass equals resonance and resistance to changes in frequency. High mass means stable, dense resonance. Low mass means less stable, less dense resonance.

Exceptions: There are places along the acoustic length of the horn where mass greatly effects the resonance and the stability of the sound and there are places that have much less effect.

Reality: Designers make choices concerning the placement of weight and lightness to achieve their targets for resonance and stability.

If you look carefully at different designs, you can see these choices. The Benge and Burbank 6X-CG trumpets strive for maximum agility through lightness in virtually every major and minor part of the horn. If built properly, the horn will still resonate, but at very high volume the sound will not be as stable as the same design with heavier components. The bell is particularly suspect here, but it contributes a lot to the instrument's lightning response and agility. So, a trade-off is made. Claud Gordon spending much time in the recording studio might have something to do with his choice of ultra light weight vs. stability at extreme volume.

Harrelson trumpets seem to concentrate mass in the mouthpiece, the tuning slide and the valve block, while the rest of the horn is stripped down to minimum mass. It lacks the bracing at the mouthpiece receiver and bell flare.

Flip Oakes' horns add some mass to the bell, but keep components light elsewhere to achieve acoustic stability without sacrificing agile response.

The traditional Bach 37 has mass throughout the instrument giving it a stable, but reasonably agile acoustic response.
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece

www.jazzscales.org

The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pops listed the horns he liked for response: #1 WT, #2 Callet, #3 Calicchio
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