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On the Comeback Trail



 
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Brassman19
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Joined: 31 May 2019
Posts: 163
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: On the Comeback Trail Reply with quote

Hello. I picked back up playing trumpet again about a year and a half back, after a thirty-three year layoff. Before quitting in my junior year of college (due to bad embouchure issues which didn't seem to be able to be rectified then) I had played for sixteen years, so had advanced a pretty fair degree in my abilities, technique, knowledge of fingerings, etc. to that point. I continued on with music after quitting, though, learning to sing, and was also a music minor of sorts in my college studies. Since that time I have continued with it, writing, composing and arranging my own songs and music, so have never entirely been out of music, music theory, etc. When I picked back up playing the trumpet again last year, to my great encouragement I found that I could still recall all the trumpet's fingerings to all the keys, plus could also make a passable, though rudimentary, embouchure capable of producing a decent tone, but with a limited range, very limited endurance, and even more limited technical skills. Also on the plus side, I found that the extended layoff had seemingly given me a "hard reset" insofar as the problems and likely underlying issues I had experienced in playing when in college and which had caused me to quit, and to date none of those issues or problems have returned, thankfully. My range is continuing to expand upward (I have pretty good control of my lower range, including the pedal tones, and am also gaining control in the middle range), to where I am now getting comfortable playing somewhat in the range above the staff with good tone, and my top note as of now is about the high C- C# (I have hit, a few times, the D, and even E above that, but not with any consistency, nor have I been able to sustain those tones for any period of time). Just recently I have found that my diaphragmatic breathing/breath control and lip buzz have started working together much better in synch without me having to think about it that much, and consequently I am now starting to play with more of a flow, and able to use good phrasing, expression and even appropriate vibrato in my playing. My double-tonguing is also starting to get crisper and freer, though I need to work on my fingering accuracy more. All that I have really been doing for the past year and a half (all by myself, with a little bit of input, assessment and feedback from a very solid, pro-level trumpet player friend of mine) has been a lot of extended long tones, playing up and down all the keys/scales chromatically (both legato and tongued), arpeggios up and down all the keys/scales chromatically (again, both legato and tongued), a few warm up, etc. exercises my friend has given me to work on, and playing through some selected songs of my interest. My main area of weakness (in my estimation, if it is accurate) is my endurance is still pretty limited, with the extent of my play time usually falling between 30 to 40 minutes, and on a few very rare occasions, I have been able to go for as much as 45 minutes to an hour. I said all this to say, could anyone give me any suggestions how I can improve upon or fine-tune my practice regimen, and especially, how I can work on improving and increasing my endurance? Thanks for any thoughts anyone would like to share.
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1954 Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet (Yellow brass w/nickel silver bell flare, like the Olds Studio model)
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet,
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paragraphs. Please.

Endurance is one of those things that many players struggle with. Keeping the airflow up, resting as much as you play, long tones like the 20-minute G, to play an hour practice two, and many other tidbits and exercises have been and will be offered. My best advice is to find a good teacher to help you and work with him (her, whatever) diligently if you want to improve. There are many in the Ft. Worth/Dallas area, UNT, and there are Jeff Smiley (Balanced Embouchure), "Pops" McLaughlin, John Mohan, etc. who offer in-person and online lessons. A little time on Skype or a trip could do wonders.

When I pursued a comeback many years ago the best thing I did was to find a great teacher. The worst thing I did was to wait too long so all my old, bad habits took root again.

FWIWFM - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 1991
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back to trumpet playing! As has already been noted, the best thing you can do to improve your trumpet playing is to get lessons from a good teacher. If that is not possible, here are some thoughts:

Consider using a structured trumpet method to help guide your routine. The best one I have come across is Harold “Pappy” Mitchell’s “Mitchell on Trumpet.” It offers 82 lessons that span the range from absolute beginner/comeback player through to the advanced player. If you follow the directions in each lesson regarding the number of repeats for each exercise, they’ll really help your endurance in addition to technique, musicality, etc. Based on your progress you could probably skip volume 1 and start with volume 2.

With regard to endurance, Bill Knevitt’s “5 Ways to Build Ultra Endurance on Trumpet” is terrific. Another great book that can really help with endurance is Carmine Caruso’s “Musical Calisthenics for Brass.” In the case of Caruso, in particular, make sure you closely follow the directions in the book. If you don’t, you’ll greatly minimize the value of the exercises.

If you have Arban’s Complete Conservatory Method you can use it to make your own endurance routine. Start with exercise #11 on page 13. When you finish that move on to #12 without stopping. Then #13, 14…until you are fatigued. Then rest. You can also do that with etudes. Play an etude from Getchell, Hering, Sparke…and then immediately continue on to the next one. Go as far as you can (while maintaining control) and then stop. If you can transpose, play the same etude transposed into different keys without stopping. Concone’s vocalises can also be great for endurance. Finally, download a few Sousa marches and play them. Play the repeats.

You mentioned finger accuracy as well. Herbert L. Clarke’s “Technical Studies” is one of the best places to start for that. Single tongue, k tongue, double or triple tongue, and slur the exercises to help work on that aspect of your playing at the same time. Those exercises can also help with endurance, range, etc. Arban’s gruppetto exercises, trill exercises, scale exercises, triplets and sixteenth note exercises…can also be really useful for finger accuracy.

Have fun!
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back, Brassman19 and good luck.

I started playing again in the spring of 2016 after a 50+ year hiatus. Like you, some things came back quickly, but range took a bit longer and endurance is an ongoing thing. By the fall of 2016 I was playing well enough to do first trumpet duties in a local seniors band. I had trouble at first enduring the 60 minute practice sessions, but as time went on I found that my endurance was proceeding beyond 60 minutes. This, my third, going on fourth, year I joined a top notch community band of young and older players and our practice sessions run 90 minutes, and most gigs run 60 to 90 minutes and I am getting through them okay, but my target is 2 hours and I feel confident I can get there. There are 5 trumpets in this band. I play first book but not lead. A younger fellow has that nasty job.

The point I am making here is that the discipline necessary to play in a good quality band went a long way in helping me develop my endurance.

By the way, I turned 83 this month.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3275
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: On the Comeback Trail Reply with quote

Brassman19 wrote:
... my endurance is still pretty limited, with the extent of my play time usually falling between 30 to 40 minutes, and on a few very rare occasions, I have been able to go for as much as 45 minutes to an hour. ...

-----------------------------
For endurance there are 2 main concerns -
1) Embouchure muscle fatigue
2) Lip pain or injury

If you're having actual lip pain, then my guess is that the cause is either a poor fit of the mouthpiece rim on your lips / teeth, or use of too much mouthpiece pressure on the upper lip.
If you are using mouthpiece pressure as the main way to higher notes, that's a problem. Try transferring the rim pressure a little more onto the lower lip, so the upper is not squashed by the rim - the upper lip must have ability to vibrate.

Embouchure muscle endurance is achieved by sensible training; don't injure yourself, and take rest breaks when you need them.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Brassman19
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Joined: 31 May 2019
Posts: 163
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: "On the Comeback Trail" Reply with quote

Thank you all so much for all the very kind, thoughtful, and informative responses to my question. I really appreciate all the input and suggestions (including the request for me to write in paragraphs).

Due to limited time (I have a ten year-old son) and finances (same reason as before, plus a wife! ) I haven't yet been able to take some structured lessons, other than what little bit of input, feedback and direction my pro trumpet player friend has given me. Thankfully, as I said in my initial post, none of my old bad playing habits have come back to date, or when any have, they have been only minor ones, which I have caught and been able to correct, and get myself back on the right path of proper playing, so I have therefore been able to put them behind me, and continued on past them.

The various suggestions of book studies, etc. many of you have made which I can get and practice using are excellent ones. I will look into getting maybe two or more of them, and try to follow and practice them faithfully. I'm sure they will help me a lot in getting me back on the road to technical proficiency again, and improve my endurance.

In regards to my endurance issues, it may be that the lack of it coming back very quickly is tied also to the fact that I really don't have opportunity to play and practice all that much (maybe 30 minutes, 3- 4 evenings on the weekdays, and then maybe 45 minutes to an hour total max each on both Saturdays and Sundays). This is, again, partly due to having a ten-year old son and all the responsibilities which go with raising a child, being a husband, along with taking care of my home, my work, and other things vying for my time.

I am impressed and encouraged by the number of responses I have gotten, along with the varied backgrounds and comeback stories, plus experiences, which must be behind each of you who have done so yourselves. Wow, George B, coming back after a 50-year layoff, and doing as well as you are now, at age 83! I am very impressed with your success story, plus encouraged even more that I can successfully make a come back, and even move further beyond in my playing ability and skills than what I had back in college.

Jay, thank you for your thoughts and concern toward what may be causing my lack of endurance to date. So far, I have only been experiencing what I believe is muscle fatigue in my embouchure, lips and facial muscles, and no real pain, other than the very few times I have pushed myself to play a bit close to total fatigue, or longer than, or in ways that my embouchure is so far not conditioned back and ready to do (I have had a little minor pain a few times in those cases, but the moment I sensed that happened, I stopped playing immediately, and even used an ice pack on my lips, to assuage or minimize any kind of tissue damage, then rested my lips for a day or two before picking the horn back up).

What has usually been happening to me is when I start nearing my endurance limit, I notice that I start playing "air notes," or "air biscuits" on a number of tones (especially going on up into my higher -mid, to upper register), and I have found that to be my signal that it is time to wind things down and stop playing. If I haven't experienced any pain, I usually will do some kind of "cooling down" exercise, like playing long tones in my lower register, all the way down into the pedal tones, as low as I can go, and by that time my lips usually feel fine and recuperated, after which I quit my practice session.

If I find myself only playing one or two occasional "air notes" in my practice, then I make myself take an intentional break of usually at least a minute, or a couple of minutes (from what I understand one of you said, I need to actually take spaced-out breaks equal to the amount of time I have been playing, which will also help me in building my endurance), before resuming playing again. I am finding (again, something very encouraging to me) that my lips and embouchure are recovering pretty quickly once I take a break, and in many cases, even after maybe a ten or fifteen second break, to where I can play again through several more phrases of the music I am working on without any loss of tone or range, etc. on notes when picking it back up.

In regards to your thought about the incorrect size/rim, etc. of mouthpiece maybe being the culprit, when I was having such severe problems back in college, I was playing on a 10-1/2 C Bach for most of my marching band, concert band, brass choir, etc. type of playing, and for jazz band, I was using it, plus a different mp designed for playing in the higher range, and pretty shallow (I can't recall what it was now). From what I can recall, both mp's were much smaller in diameter than what I played all the way up through high school, so it is very likely/possible that that may have been a large part of, or at least a major contributing factor to my problems then.

When I started playing again a year ago, I used at first a Bach 7C, then progressed to trying some kind of Yamaha (Schilke clone) mp with a deeper, wedged cup, which seemed to be good for me for a while, then a little later tried a couple of mp's my pro friend has (a Bach 2C, and 1-1/2 C, both of which I immediately know were not right for me-- They felt WAY too wide for my lips and embouchure), tried my Bach 3C I own (it felt too big/wide to me), then went to a Bach 5C I have, which felt somewhat closer to right, but it still seemed to be just a bit wider inside the rim/cup diameter than I needed, plus it was a good bit deeper than either the 7C or Yamaha mp I had used, and it also gave an "edge" to my tone and sound which I did not like nor want for my playing.

Finally, my pro trumpeter friend let me try his custom Black-Hill mp (their size 10-1/2 C with an "A" backbore [or is that the cup depth?]-- Apparently its inner cup diameter is app. that of the Bach 6C, but with a more comfortable rim, and more customized internal cup and backbore design than the standard, commercial Bach size mp's), and it was like all of a sudden "all the stars and planets aligned!" My friend offered to sell me the mp, which I accepted and bought it, and haven't looked at any or tried other mp's since, as the Black-Hill just feels so comfortable and natural for me when playing, plus I am able to get exactly the type of tone and sound I want, expressiveness, feel, etc. in my playing with it. It really feels like it works with and for me, rather than against me, or like I have to fight against and "overcome" it when playing with it.
_________________
1954 Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet (Yellow brass w/nickel silver bell flare, like the Olds Studio model)
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet,
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you found the right mouthpiece. That is so important.

Like you, I played a 10.5c Bach for 12 years until I quit in 1965. Fifty years later a small mp just didn't work. I used a 5C and a 3C for awhile but after a couple of lip injuries a friend urged me to try a Wedge. And VOILA ! I had an immediate gain in endurance and everything else just seemed to fall into place. I also needed a little larger ID. The Wedge I use is a tad larger than the Bach 3C.

Good luck on your journey. You are going to do just fine.
George
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
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