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outskiing Regular Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: Adams F5 Copper vs Kanstul 1525 Copper |
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I'm wondering if anyone has had the privilege to play these two horns and can let us know how they compare. the Adams is a smaller bore, so I'm wondering if the larger bore Kanstul comes out a bit more trumpet like. Listing to the professionals who use these horns the Kanstul does seem to have a brighter tone, but that may be due to mouthpiece and style selection.
Just curious... _________________ Est quod est. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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The Kanstul's bore is 0.421", not really considered "large". I have not played the Adams so cannot compare, however, sorry. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have played both models mentioned.. not side by side however, so my comparison is strictly based on memory.
I don't think either has any trumpet like quality. Both very mellow, wonderful flugelhorn sounds, both a bit on the heavy side.
2 things I didn't like about the Kanstul were that is was just a bit larger (physically)-I never felt comfortable holding it, and the valves were crazy noisy. I tried all sorts of fixes. New springs, valve guides, lubes.
Every Adams I've demo'd had great valves and the Flugel felt good in my hands. FYI I prefer the Adams F1; they sound and play great-no need to add extra weight or different bell material.
Over the passed year, I've been on a safari, looking for a better Flugel. To include playing all the Flugels at the recent ITG Conference.
My list: #1 Van Laar B2, #2 Van Laar B1, #3 Adams F1, #4 Adams F5.. then a gap.. and my top money saver Yamaha YFH-631G _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the Kanstul 1525 does not sound anything like a trumpet. It gets a classic and diffused flugel sound. I haven't played the Adams F5 but I do have an Adams F2 with the red brass bell/nickel silver flare. My F2 also gets a classic flugel sound but it is not as diffused as the sound of my 1525, it has a tiny bit of an edge to its sound so it projects more.
I tested an Adams F1 and liked it as well. The F1 is shockingly lightweight. I chose the F2 because it was physically more similar to my A8 trumpet than was the F1 because it has the heavier valve block. The F5 was not available when I got my F2. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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You should be considering the Getzen Custom Reserve |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: |
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IME, most of the "large-bore" flugels I have played (e.g. 0.460" bors) sound more "trumpety" than the smaller bores, but I suspect much of that is simply me overblowing since it is easier to do on a large-bore flugel. That is not to say they sound anything like a trumpet. The bell flare is the biggest factor and none of the flugels I have played are anywhere near as bright as my trumpet.
A Kanstul 1525 is a pretty dark-sounding flugelhorn; I would not worry about it being "trumpety". The Adams horns have a great rep and others can (and have) provide hands-on experience. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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No danger of the copper-belled Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet.... I have well over a dozen mouthpieces for my unit, ranging from the uber-dark Flip Oakes Extreme through the incredibly lyrical Griego CSFL, to the French Horn-like Kanstul FB, to the more brilliant Warburton 3Fl which gives 1525 the tone of some Heldenflugel, the lighter Curry Fl-M... None of them turn this beauty into a trumpet. Yet, undeniably 1525 is incredibly sensitive to mouthpieces... Under each mouthpiece 1525 changes, and ever remains glorious.
The only minor quibble with 1525 are its slightly clacky valves.
Saluti, Guido _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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CSR Regular Member
Joined: 19 May 2018 Posts: 39 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Did you decide on which horn? I am also looking at the F2 and F5 vs the 1525. I played a used 1525 for around 3 weeks and loved it. One thing I really liked about it is that as I played it louder it responded very well. The sound and projection sharpened,while still sounding like a flugel. I currently own a blessing 1541 which has a very nice sound, though I don't like it's slotting as well as the Kanstul. IME it produces a sound that I like every bit as much as the Kanstul. I will be selling it when I chose my next horn. I've played several Getzens, Yamaha's and a Courtois. The only horn I really like in that group was the Courtois, though I would tend to play it more for classical work and less for jazz. |
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Harry Hilgers Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637
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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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GuidoCorona wrote: | No danger of the copper-belled Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet.... |
+1 |
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outskiing Regular Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2017 Posts: 32 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:08 pm Post subject: Leaning Towards the Adams |
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[quote="CSR"]Did you decide on which horn?
I'm leaning towards the Adams, but it may be an ACB Doubler for now until my talent and wallet can handle the step up. _________________ Est quod est. |
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TrentAustin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 5485 Location: KC MO
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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this is a little neurosis of mine but i will offer it anyway. i would be sure that copper was the right way to go beforehand. play the copper bell instrument against a top 70/30 brass model.
even a flugel greatly benefits from some higher overtones. |
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patdublc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1050 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I've owned both of them. The Kanstul 1525 was a beautiful horn, but I could never get comfortable with the intonation on the horn. I bought an Adams and eventually sold the Kanstul.
About me - I don't play flugel every day. It is not my main instrument and strictly something that I double with. I want a horn that I can pick up and play in tune even if I haven't played it a lot lately. The Adams does that for me. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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patdublc wrote: | I've owned both of them. The Kanstul 1525 was a beautiful horn, but I could never get comfortable with the intonation on the horn. I bought an Adams and eventually sold the Kanstul.
About me - I don't play flugel every day. It is not my main instrument and strictly something that I double with. I want a horn that I can pick up and play in tune even if I haven't played it a lot lately. The Adams does that for me. |
I own a 1525. I used to have a lot more trouble with it relative to pitch when I was using the stock "Bach" taper leadpipe. After someone mentioned it here four of five years back, I ordered a french taper pipe for it (and got appropriate mouthpieces to fit it) and have had much better results with it.
That said, I'm kind of interested in this thread, since I'm interested in the Adams flugels. Mainly because I think the 1525 might be just a bit too 'fluffy' in the normally desirable way for a lot of jazz, but I'd like something a little clearer (not more trumpet-like, just less diffuse??) for some of the brass band literature.
I'd be curious to hear about any Adams flugels being used in a brass band setting and how its working out. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:13 am Post subject: |
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I've played both.
The Adams F5 has a smaller wrap - what I'd think of as a more traditional Couesnon wrap. It has the straight-through valves which gives it a very open blow, surprisingly little resistance for a flugel. It has a compact, warm sound - I think a good compromise between classic light French sound and modern dark sound. Those that like their flugels with less resistance would find this an attractive model.
The Kanstul 1525 is gigantic and fluffy. I found it difficult to get any "ping" or attack in the sound and I'd personally worry about its projection or "cut" in louder situations. But if you're looking for a modern, dark, maximally fluffy flugel that looks gorgeous, this would be a fine choice. I think it would be ideal for playing into a microphone or recording studio purposes. I would not worry about this horn being "trumpety" at all! This has a huge, rich, powerful tone.
I hope this is helpful - good luck! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Is there any site to get a good side-by-side model comparison on the Adams product line?
There are also a lot of customization options discussed, it seems hard to judge (remotely at least) how they impact the way the models play. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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TrentAustin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 5485 Location: KC MO
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Leaning Towards the Adams |
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[quote="TrentAustin"] outskiing wrote: | CSR wrote: | Did you decide on which horn?
I'm leaning towards the Adams, but it may be an ACB Doubler for now until my talent and wallet can handle the step up. |
Give us a call at 781-944-6247 anytime. We are bound to have something that will work for you.
Cheers,
T |
Trent set me up with a real beauty, and it was not an Adams. He's reliable. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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JazzFluegel Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2013 Posts: 63
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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GuidoCorona wrote: | No danger ... Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet.... a dozen mouthpieces , .. None of them turn this beauty into a trumpet. ... 1525 is incredibly sensitive to mouthpieces... Under each mouthpiece 1525 changes, and ever remains glorious.
The only minor quibble with 1525 are its slightly clacky valves.
Saluti, Guido |
+1 & +1
& I would add: (1) of what I've played, the Kanstul is the most accurate in pitch up-and-down & (2) the easiest blow of any fluegel I've ever owned (asthma), but (3) the build quality is suspect (flaking lacquer, black spots, sloppy solder, visible weld line; & Kanstul did not even bother to answer my comment to the same on the warranty card).
The best sounding FL in a recording studio environment is the Marcinkiewicz, bar none. It sounds like a fluegel without any engineering required at all. On the down side for me was the 0.46 bore and 6.25" bell which requires big air. Gone but not forgotten...
gV. _________________ Been here before...
CDs BIG SWING, runnerduck.com/tempos_cd.htm
JAZZ WORSHIP, cdbaby.com
NOW, Keith Allen Pintar
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt Cornet
Kanstul 1525 FL
1962 Conn 9A Artist Coprion
1948 Conn NY Symphony 12B Coprion |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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suspect there might have been some vawriability in quality assurance with Kanstul over the years. In my case, while the workmanship is not as good as Adams, my only complaint for the fit and finish of my 1525 are the charmingly clacky valves and a very few minor blips on the lacquer.... I have not spotted any other defects....
But intonation is IMO extremely good, and tone is divine!
G. _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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