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Adams F5 Copper vs Kanstul 1525 Copper


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outskiing
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Adams F5 Copper vs Kanstul 1525 Copper Reply with quote

I'm wondering if anyone has had the privilege to play these two horns and can let us know how they compare. the Adams is a smaller bore, so I'm wondering if the larger bore Kanstul comes out a bit more trumpet like. Listing to the professionals who use these horns the Kanstul does seem to have a brighter tone, but that may be due to mouthpiece and style selection.

Just curious...
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kanstul's bore is 0.421", not really considered "large". I have not played the Adams so cannot compare, however, sorry.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played both models mentioned.. not side by side however, so my comparison is strictly based on memory.

I don't think either has any trumpet like quality. Both very mellow, wonderful flugelhorn sounds, both a bit on the heavy side.
2 things I didn't like about the Kanstul were that is was just a bit larger (physically)-I never felt comfortable holding it, and the valves were crazy noisy. I tried all sorts of fixes. New springs, valve guides, lubes.

Every Adams I've demo'd had great valves and the Flugel felt good in my hands. FYI I prefer the Adams F1; they sound and play great-no need to add extra weight or different bell material.

Over the passed year, I've been on a safari, looking for a better Flugel. To include playing all the Flugels at the recent ITG Conference.
My list: #1 Van Laar B2, #2 Van Laar B1, #3 Adams F1, #4 Adams F5.. then a gap.. and my top money saver Yamaha YFH-631G
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the Kanstul 1525 does not sound anything like a trumpet. It gets a classic and diffused flugel sound. I haven't played the Adams F5 but I do have an Adams F2 with the red brass bell/nickel silver flare. My F2 also gets a classic flugel sound but it is not as diffused as the sound of my 1525, it has a tiny bit of an edge to its sound so it projects more.

I tested an Adams F1 and liked it as well. The F1 is shockingly lightweight. I chose the F2 because it was physically more similar to my A8 trumpet than was the F1 because it has the heavier valve block. The F5 was not available when I got my F2.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be considering the Getzen Custom Reserve
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IME, most of the "large-bore" flugels I have played (e.g. 0.460" bors) sound more "trumpety" than the smaller bores, but I suspect much of that is simply me overblowing since it is easier to do on a large-bore flugel. That is not to say they sound anything like a trumpet. The bell flare is the biggest factor and none of the flugels I have played are anywhere near as bright as my trumpet.

A Kanstul 1525 is a pretty dark-sounding flugelhorn; I would not worry about it being "trumpety". The Adams horns have a great rep and others can (and have) provide hands-on experience.
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No danger of the copper-belled Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet.... I have well over a dozen mouthpieces for my unit, ranging from the uber-dark Flip Oakes Extreme through the incredibly lyrical Griego CSFL, to the French Horn-like Kanstul FB, to the more brilliant Warburton 3Fl which gives 1525 the tone of some Heldenflugel, the lighter Curry Fl-M... None of them turn this beauty into a trumpet. Yet, undeniably 1525 is incredibly sensitive to mouthpieces... Under each mouthpiece 1525 changes, and ever remains glorious.

The only minor quibble with 1525 are its slightly clacky valves.

Saluti, Guido
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CSR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you decide on which horn? I am also looking at the F2 and F5 vs the 1525. I played a used 1525 for around 3 weeks and loved it. One thing I really liked about it is that as I played it louder it responded very well. The sound and projection sharpened,while still sounding like a flugel. I currently own a blessing 1541 which has a very nice sound, though I don't like it's slotting as well as the Kanstul. IME it produces a sound that I like every bit as much as the Kanstul. I will be selling it when I chose my next horn. I've played several Getzens, Yamaha's and a Courtois. The only horn I really like in that group was the Courtois, though I would tend to play it more for classical work and less for jazz.
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
No danger of the copper-belled Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet....

+1
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outskiing
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Leaning Towards the Adams Reply with quote

[quote="CSR"]Did you decide on which horn?

I'm leaning towards the Adams, but it may be an ACB Doubler for now until my talent and wallet can handle the step up.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Leaning Towards the Adams Reply with quote

[quote="outskiing"]
CSR wrote:
Did you decide on which horn?

I'm leaning towards the Adams, but it may be an ACB Doubler for now until my talent and wallet can handle the step up.



Give us a call at 781-944-6247 anytime. We are bound to have something that will work for you.

Cheers,
T
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a little neurosis of mine but i will offer it anyway. i would be sure that copper was the right way to go beforehand. play the copper bell instrument against a top 70/30 brass model.
even a flugel greatly benefits from some higher overtones.
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've owned both of them. The Kanstul 1525 was a beautiful horn, but I could never get comfortable with the intonation on the horn. I bought an Adams and eventually sold the Kanstul.
About me - I don't play flugel every day. It is not my main instrument and strictly something that I double with. I want a horn that I can pick up and play in tune even if I haven't played it a lot lately. The Adams does that for me.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
I've owned both of them. The Kanstul 1525 was a beautiful horn, but I could never get comfortable with the intonation on the horn. I bought an Adams and eventually sold the Kanstul.
About me - I don't play flugel every day. It is not my main instrument and strictly something that I double with. I want a horn that I can pick up and play in tune even if I haven't played it a lot lately. The Adams does that for me.


I own a 1525. I used to have a lot more trouble with it relative to pitch when I was using the stock "Bach" taper leadpipe. After someone mentioned it here four of five years back, I ordered a french taper pipe for it (and got appropriate mouthpieces to fit it) and have had much better results with it.

That said, I'm kind of interested in this thread, since I'm interested in the Adams flugels. Mainly because I think the 1525 might be just a bit too 'fluffy' in the normally desirable way for a lot of jazz, but I'd like something a little clearer (not more trumpet-like, just less diffuse??) for some of the brass band literature.

I'd be curious to hear about any Adams flugels being used in a brass band setting and how its working out.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played both.

The Adams F5 has a smaller wrap - what I'd think of as a more traditional Couesnon wrap. It has the straight-through valves which gives it a very open blow, surprisingly little resistance for a flugel. It has a compact, warm sound - I think a good compromise between classic light French sound and modern dark sound. Those that like their flugels with less resistance would find this an attractive model.

The Kanstul 1525 is gigantic and fluffy. I found it difficult to get any "ping" or attack in the sound and I'd personally worry about its projection or "cut" in louder situations. But if you're looking for a modern, dark, maximally fluffy flugel that looks gorgeous, this would be a fine choice. I think it would be ideal for playing into a microphone or recording studio purposes. I would not worry about this horn being "trumpety" at all! This has a huge, rich, powerful tone.

I hope this is helpful - good luck!
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any site to get a good side-by-side model comparison on the Adams product line?

There are also a lot of customization options discussed, it seems hard to judge (remotely at least) how they impact the way the models play.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link

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dershem
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Leaning Towards the Adams Reply with quote

[quote="TrentAustin"]
outskiing wrote:
CSR wrote:
Did you decide on which horn?

I'm leaning towards the Adams, but it may be an ACB Doubler for now until my talent and wallet can handle the step up.



Give us a call at 781-944-6247 anytime. We are bound to have something that will work for you.

Cheers,
T


Trent set me up with a real beauty, and it was not an Adams. He's reliable.
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JazzFluegel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
No danger ... Kanstul 1525 ever sounding like a trumpet.... a dozen mouthpieces , .. None of them turn this beauty into a trumpet. ... 1525 is incredibly sensitive to mouthpieces... Under each mouthpiece 1525 changes, and ever remains glorious.

The only minor quibble with 1525 are its slightly clacky valves.

Saluti, Guido


+1 & +1

& I would add: (1) of what I've played, the Kanstul is the most accurate in pitch up-and-down & (2) the easiest blow of any fluegel I've ever owned (asthma), but (3) the build quality is suspect (flaking lacquer, black spots, sloppy solder, visible weld line; & Kanstul did not even bother to answer my comment to the same on the warranty card).

The best sounding FL in a recording studio environment is the Marcinkiewicz, bar none. It sounds like a fluegel without any engineering required at all. On the down side for me was the 0.46 bore and 6.25" bell which requires big air. Gone but not forgotten...

gV.
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

suspect there might have been some vawriability in quality assurance with Kanstul over the years. In my case, while the workmanship is not as good as Adams, my only complaint for the fit and finish of my 1525 are the charmingly clacky valves and a very few minor blips on the lacquer.... I have not spotted any other defects....

But intonation is IMO extremely good, and tone is divine!

G.
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