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Yamaha 16F4 flugelhorn mouthpiece



 
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geseco
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject: Yamaha 16F4 flugelhorn mouthpiece Reply with quote

How does it compare to the 14F4 flugelhorn mouthpiece?
Is it much deeper and darker?

Thanks!


Last edited by geseco on Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is just a wider diameter. If you play a Yamaha flugelhorn, use a Yamaha mouthpiece. They match well together.
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geseco
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I know. It´s a bit wider.
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geseco
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else?

Thank you.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Yamaha site -
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/mouthpieces/flugelhorns/standard_gp.html

describes the 16F4 flugel mouthpiece as
"Same rim configuration as the 16C4 trumpet model, thus interchangeable. Ideal for orchestra players who prefer a large inner rim diameter."

and the 'comparison' site -
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/mouthpieces/flugelhorns/comparison_chart.html#product-tabs

indicates that the 16F4 is deeper and larger (cup volume & shape) than the 14F4.

IF the size of the 16 rim would WORK for you, then the 'conventional wisdom' is that a larger and deeper cup should give less brightness, and perhaps be more 'mellow'.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha says that the 14F4 is a standard cup but the 16F4 is "deep". I see no additional details.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/6/1267056/WA-37R.pdf
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response.

I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response.

I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day.

By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4?

I didn't find the 14F4 to be trombone-y just kind of plain vanilla.

I've got 3C-ish sizes. The first one I got was a 3CFX (I think), which I thought was a flugel mouthpiece, but was actually a trumpet mouthpiece with a flugel cup. However, it also fits in my Yamaha flugel and plays great. I also have a 3MDF (again, I think) which is pretty similar to the 3CFX, though I might like the 3CFX slightly better.

I don't find them to be diffuse, specifically, just better sounding all-around. Maybe a bit more diffuse as well, but it's like the full sound spectrum is boosted.

I'm not super diameter sensitive, but the 14 width and the ACB 3C size seems to be close enough for me. I also play the Yamaha Shew Jazz (trumpet), Stork 3C, Stork 4D, and Blessing 3C as well on my various trumpets and cornets and they seem all fine, though not specifically identical. If I was more serious, like I was a decade and a half ago, and playing semi-professionally, instead of mostly casually, that might be different.
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geseco
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geseco wrote:
Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4?

They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4.

I've played the trumpet 16C4 and the 14C4. The difference, other than the width, is negligible.

If you're more of a Bach 1 1/2C or Yamaha 16 diameter guy, go for the 16F4. If you're more of a Bach 3C or Yamaha 14 diameter guy, go for the 14F4.

If you want something that's deeper and darker, you'll have to get a non-Yamaha mouthpiece.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
geseco wrote:
Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4?

They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4.

While this may be true for the similarly numbered trumpet mouthpieces, the Yamaha catalog specifically says that the 16F4 is deeper than the 14F4.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/6/1267056/WA-37R.pdf
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geseco wrote:
Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4?

Crazy Finn wrote:
They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4.

cheiden wrote:
While this may be true for the similarly numbered trumpet mouthpieces, the Yamaha catalog specifically says that the 16F4 is deeper than the 14F4.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/6/1267056/WA-37R.pdf

I do see that. But, they're just words. A flugel came into the shop with a 16F4 and I cleaned the mouthpiece. Compared to my 14F4, it didn't look any deeper. I didn't play it, because it was a customer piece, but that's how it looked. It might be technically deeper, but it wasn't significant.

I think the OP wants a darker sounding flugel mouthpiece, and sees the 16F4 as the ticket compared to the 14F4. While I haven't played on it, I'm going to guess that at most it's very slightly darker, if at all. Otherwise, he should just play the diameter that suits him better, as most players would.

I simply don't think any of the Yamaha pieces will give him what he's looking for.

Hopefully someone with experience will chime in, but in the meantime, that's my couple of cents.

Honestly, they're not that expensive. Buy both, try them and you'll see. Again, my guess is that the diameter that is better for him will feel better and they'll sound pretty much the same.
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Crazy Finn wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response.

I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day.

By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4?


Our Ta2 or MV3 rim will be the closest for you. Email us at mpcsales@austincustombrass.com and we can help you out.

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