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INTJ
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Location: Northern Idaho
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: Mouthpiece for Overused Chops |
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I rarely change equipment anymore. I settled on a combination years ago that works well. My Wedge MP is a little smaller than a Bach 10.5D. I use a Warburton KT backbore and the throat was drilled to size #25 then plated. This past week I had a couple days of heavier playing and my chops felt just a little overused.
During my warm up I usually play to DHD, but that day I was shutting off at the Bb just below. So I had a wild idea and grabbed my slightly more open MP. It has the same rim and cup, but a Warburton Q backbore. Also, it was drilled after being plated vs before meaning the throat is marginally larger. Now this more open MP is just a tiny bit more open, but noticeable.
Interstingly, just changing to the slightly more open MP immediately got me back to a DHC. I didn’t try to go higher. More importantly I seemed to have slightly better response and focus.
I guess all that makes sense. I don’t know if the minutely more open throat or the slightly tighter backbore was the trick, or maybe it was the combination. Regardless, it’s nice to know I have an option when I am forced to use my chops heavier than I normally do.
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Turkle
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I have heard of trumpeters carrying a second mouthpiece with just a little more room for their chops so at the end of a hard gig when your face is all swollen you don't bottom out and have room to work in there. I've never tried it personally but there ya go.
I think I saw a Monette video with Adam Rapa on the topic??? My memory is hazy, can't remember.
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sure I've heard someone (possibly Steve Patrick?) say they carry around multiple mouthpieces and pick based on what the chops need on a given day? |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Overtired, overworked, an athlete would take rest time, not just keep on training. They would also look to recovery tactics, massage and gentle stretching, etc...
Just a thought, but how about taking it easy and recovering?
cheers
Andy
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TKSop
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | Overtired, overworked, an athlete would take rest time, not just keep on training. They would also look to recovery tactics, massage and gentle stretching, etc...
Just a thought, but how about taking it easy and recovering?
cheers
Andy |
If we're just talking about practice... absolutely, unquestionably the right answer.
When there's a job to be done, maybe there's merit in discussing how to "survive" that little bit longer (as sensible a suggestion as it may be, it's not always possible just put the damned thing down). |
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I think the solution is to back off and rest. I don't think it is wise to try to "fix" overused chops with a mouthpiece change. In fact, a mouthpiece change doesn't fix overused chops, if the chops are already overused it only ultimately makes the chops even more overused. You need to accept your limitations and build up stamina rather than try to force an erroneous "miracle" cure.
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roccotrumpetsiffredi
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Joined: 04 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Buy a tuba mouthpiece. Buzz blow and sing through it.
Rest.
Can't sing? That's your problem, it's the same with the chops.
Not the mouthpiece:) |
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INTJ
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
Posts: 1986
Location: Northern Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Several of the more recent posters are simply wrong. If they have never found themselves in a situation where the set exceeded their endurance a bit then I question how much actual playing they have done.
For the rest of the trumpet playing world, WHEN that happens a slightly more
open piece may well allow you to survive the gig as it did for me.
One last thing. I can still play DHC (the one an octave above High C) when my chops are overused. If you are not able to do that when your chops are overused then keep your criticisms of my method to yourself.
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| INTJ wrote: | Several of the more recent posters are simply wrong. If they have never found themselves in a situation where the set exceeded their endurance a bit then I question how much actual playing they have done.
For the rest of the trumpet playing world, WHEN that happens a slightly more
open piece may well allow you to survive the gig as it did for me.
One last thing. I can still play DHC (the one an octave above High C) when my chops are overused. If you are not able to do that when your chops are overused then keep your criticisms of my method to yourself. |
I've been playing for 58 years. I've been playing in professional situations for 43 of those years. I don't get into situations in which a set exceeds my endurance because I'm well prepared for whatever demands are placed on me.
Players that can sqeak out a DHC are a dime a dozen so claiming you have a DHC doesn't impress me. I never heard Clark Terry or Clifford Brown or Adolph "Bud" Herseth or Claude Gordon or Rafael Mendez or Herbert L. Clarke play a DHC but there is no doubt any of them could play circles around you.
You need to kick your INTJ ego to the curb. If you aren't receptive to the advice you request by posting or if you think you already have all the answers and solutions why do you post at all?
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INTJ
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
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Location: Northern Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | INTJ wrote: | Several of the more recent posters are simply wrong. If they have never found themselves in a situation where the set exceeded their endurance a bit then I question how much actual playing they have done.
For the rest of the trumpet playing world, WHEN that happens a slightly more
open piece may well allow you to survive the gig as it did for me.
One last thing. I can still play DHC (the one an octave above High C) when my chops are overused. If you are not able to do that when your chops are overused then keep your criticisms of my method to yourself. |
I've been playing for 58 years. I've been playing in professional situations for 43 of those years. I don't get into situations in which a set exceeds my endurance because I'm well prepared for whatever demands are placed on me.
Players that can sqeak out a DHC are a dime a dozen so claiming you have a DHC doesn't impress me. I never heard Clark Terry or Clifford Brown or Adolph "Bud" Herseth or Claude Gordon or Rafael Mendez or Herbert L. Clarke play a DHC but there is no doubt any of them could play circles around you.
You need to kick your INTJ ego to the curb. If you aren't receptive to the advice you request by posting or if you think you already have all the answers and solutions why do you post at all? |
You sir are out of line and making arrogant assumptions. THAT is a sign of ego. My DHC is not a squeak and I didn’t ask for any advice. I was simply sharing a technique that worked for me that might work for others. Nowhere did I ask for input. So quit projecting your own ego issues on others.......
.............oh, and have a nice day................... 
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC).
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INTJ
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Location: Northern Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC). |
What are you ranting about? This is all about YOU crapping in my thread where I shared a technique that worked for me, and then getting upset when I pushed back at your assumption and arrogance. Just who do you think you are dealing with here? Some kid who worships trumpet players?
I have been EXTREMELY transparent about my skill level. YOU are setting up a straw man implying I am making claims about my skill level that I NEVER have. I HAVE played DHCs in concerts, at the end of Count Bubba in fact.
And since you asked, here is a Double D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3BeQGIlS6A
Here is a demanding solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG6QEqIKWZs
Now leave me alone.....................
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mark61
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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INTJ,
Wedge seems to work really well for you. Sounds really good !!
Mark |
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LSOfanboy
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Your videos sound really strong!
As an observation on this thread: There are lots of brilliant players on this forum and we should all respect one another; we are fortunate enough to play an instrument that is incredibly versatile and leaves room for us all to have our strengths and, indeed, weaknesses. Instead of trying to undermine or belittle each other we should celebrate people's abilities and seek to learn and support our fellow trumpeters.
And to address the original question: I mentioned this in another thread, so don't want to sound like a broken record, but the Warburton Philip Cobb signature mouthpiece range (http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/customer-endorsements/398-trumpet-philip-cobb) has been designed with the various cups in two separate diameters '...because at times he feels he needs a little more "room" to cover his workload...'.
Read into it what you will, and without asking him directly we will never know for certain, but the text does seem to suggest that Phil uses mouthpieces in a manner similar to your concept and I am fairly sure that we can agree collectively that he is an astonishing player.
Hope that helps!
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boog
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:03 am Post subject: |
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"What we've got here is failure to communicate"....The Captain, Cool Hand Luke, ca. 1967
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
Ya'll carry on. |
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trumpetman.rob
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Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| INTJ wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: | Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC). |
What are you ranting about? This is all about YOU crapping in my thread where I shared a technique that worked for me, and then getting upset when I pushed back at your assumption and arrogance. Just who do you think you are dealing with here? Some kid who worships trumpet players?
I have been EXTREMELY transparent about my skill level. YOU are setting up a straw man implying I am making claims about my skill level that I NEVER have. I HAVE played DHCs in concerts, at the end of Count Bubba in fact.
And since you asked, here is a Double D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3BeQGIlS6A
Here is a demanding solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG6QEqIKWZs
Now leave me alone..................... |
I think you should quit worrying about high notes and focus on intonation, sound quality, style, and reducing tension.
Most importantly though, intonation. Really. It's important. |
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INTJ
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
Posts: 1986
Location: Northern Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| trumpetman.rob wrote: | | INTJ wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: | Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC). |
What are you ranting about? This is all about YOU crapping in my thread where I shared a technique that worked for me, and then getting upset when I pushed back at your assumption and arrogance. Just who do you think you are dealing with here? Some kid who worships trumpet players?
I have been EXTREMELY transparent about my skill level. YOU are setting up a straw man implying I am making claims about my skill level that I NEVER have. I HAVE played DHCs in concerts, at the end of Count Bubba in fact.
And since you asked, here is a Double D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3BeQGIlS6A
Here is a demanding solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG6QEqIKWZs
Now leave me alone..................... |
I think you should quit worrying about high notes and focus on intonation, sound quality, style, and reducing tension.
Most importantly though, intonation. Really. It's important. |
What is with some of you? I asked for no input on the links. The links were posted as a response to a very rude member who starting making gross assumptions. Just like the knucklehead whose post I am quoting here is making gross assumptions.
I quit participating here for several years because of BS like I see on this thread. There is just no value to this forum anymore. When a person cannot share a useful technique without know-it-all’s bloviating with ego and wrong assumptions then it’s a waste to be here. I certainly don’t need help from anyone—my best progress has come when I have not been in TH. It’s easy to see why so many of the great people of the past are no longer here.
It’s time for me to join them again.............
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Mike Sailors
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Yea, I'm with Blaine I guess, even though I think he's overreacting. Some of you guys are bullying him though which isn't cool. This is a trumpet message board - It's best not to take any of this stuff seriously.
Sometimes you have to play on swollen (bruised, cut, etc) chops. You do what you have to do to make it through.
If you're not working, you're not making money. Some of you guys just stay home when you're not feeling 100%?
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Steve A
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC). |
Would it have been so hard just to say, "hey, you know, I still have some misgivings about the idea of using another mouthpiece for swollen playing, but I jumped to conclusions about you, and I was wrong about that. Sorry - my mistake."?
Your first post was maybe presumptuous, but not ridiculous. The others have been - do you even meet the standards you're calling for here? Can you play Cherokee as well as Clifford Brown? Even if you can, why is this necessary to share an opinion?
This would be a much more useful place, not to speak of being nicer, if we could make civility and mutual respect the baseline, rather than blanket antagonism. |
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Turkle
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Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2450
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| INTJ wrote: | | trumpetman.rob wrote: | | INTJ wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: | Please post your DHC so we can hear it, but not as an isolated note. Play the lead trumpet part of Don Menza's Groovin' Hard from measure 155 to the end and then, after the DHG, pop up to and hold out a DHC. If you play the whole thing accurately and strong from beginning to end including the DHC then, congratulations to you, you really do have a great DHC you can actually use.
No cheating now. Best of luck to you.
For a follow up, post yourself playing Clifford Brown's solo on Cherokee at his tempo. That would be even more impressive (even though it doesn't come even close to going up to DHC). |
What are you ranting about? This is all about YOU crapping in my thread where I shared a technique that worked for me, and then getting upset when I pushed back at your assumption and arrogance. Just who do you think you are dealing with here? Some kid who worships trumpet players?
I have been EXTREMELY transparent about my skill level. YOU are setting up a straw man implying I am making claims about my skill level that I NEVER have. I HAVE played DHCs in concerts, at the end of Count Bubba in fact.
And since you asked, here is a Double D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3BeQGIlS6A
Here is a demanding solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG6QEqIKWZs
Now leave me alone..................... |
I think you should quit worrying about high notes and focus on intonation, sound quality, style, and reducing tension.
Most importantly though, intonation. Really. It's important. |
What is with some of you? I asked for no input on the links. The links were posted as a response to a very rude member who starting making gross assumptions. Just like the knucklehead whose post I am quoting here is making gross assumptions.
I quit participating here for several years because of BS like I see on this thread. There is just no value to this forum anymore. When a person cannot share a useful technique without know-it-all’s bloviating with ego and wrong assumptions then it’s a waste to be here. I certainly don’t need help from anyone—my best progress has come when I have not been in TH. It’s easy to see why so many of the great people of the past are no longer here.
It’s time for me to join them again............. |
Great playing on the Clowns solo - nice!
Come on, other people, whoever you are, this is a forum to shoot the breeze about trumpet. Relax and try not to be such aggressive jerks.
If you're a working musician playing in demanding loud environments you're going to have to play on beat up chops. I've certainly heard of musicians keeping a slightly roomier mouthpiece around for such occasions so they don't bottom out when the chops get swollen. Whatever gets you through the gig and hired for the next one.
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