Honest answers please:
Is it disrespectful/rude to sit in the front row during someone’s concerto performance?
My (former) trumpet professor and I had a huge falling out. I’ll spare the details but let’s just say I did everything I was supposed to on my part. Things got so ugly, I was switched out to study trumpet with an alternative professor.
Sadly, the drama never stopped. My former teacher was asked to play a concerto during my ensemble’s concert. I sat principle chair, and the director gave me the option to sit the piece out, to which I took him up on.
When he came on stage for the concert, I exited the stage. I was expected to sit in the audience and quickly return after, so I sat close to the stage. I saw a friend in the audience who was about six rows back towards the center, thought nothing of it, and sat next to them. I sat quietly, clapped, and respected the performance.
The teacher blamed all of his mistakes on me being a distraction and claimed I did it on purpose. He claims I sat in the front row, which is a pretty interesting argument considering there were rows of people in front of me and I’m pretty sure there is footage of the concert backing my claims.
While I admit that I was definitely sitting near the stage and towards the middle, it was nowhere near the front row. Regardless, this concern has yet to come up in my life and I did not wish to make him feel distracted nor do I wish to make anyone feel this again. I have always approached concertos as a chance to show off my skill and musicality, and have never minded when audience members sit in the front during my own recitals.
Thoughts?
Last edited by BbTrumpet1 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject:
I might have stayed back stage, if possible, but for me I see nothing wrong with what you did. It is interesting that the prof feels you have that much power over him. Normally the relationship works the other way.
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1323 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject:
He sounds like an immature individual, who needs to toughen up. I’d have stayed in my seat and not left the stage at all. It’s over now. Nobody died, so just forget about it. Not likely to occur again. _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Concert Etiquette Question!!
BbTrumpet1 wrote:
Honest answers please:
Is it disrespectful/rude to sit in the front row during someone’s concerto performance?
My (former) trumpet professor and I had a huge falling out. I’ll spare the details but let’s just say I did everything I was supposed to on my part. Things got so ugly, I was switched out to study trumpet with an alternative professor.
Sadly, the drama never stopped. My former teacher was asked to play a concerto during my ensemble’s concert. I sat principle chair, and the director gave me the option to sit the piece out, to which I took him up on.
When he came on stage for the concert, I exited the stage. I was expected to sit in the audience and quickly return after, so I sat close to the stage. I saw a friend in the audience who was about six rows back towards the center, thought nothing of it, and sat next to them. I sat quietly, clapped, and respected the performance.
The teacher blamed all of his mistakes on me being a distraction and claimed I did it on purpose. He claims I sat in the front row, which is a pretty interesting argument considering there were rows of people in front of me and I’m pretty sure there is footage of the concert backing my claims.
While I admit that I was definitely sitting near the stage and towards the middle, it was nowhere near the front row. Regardless, this concern has yet to come up in my life and I did not wish to make him feel distracted nor do I wish to make anyone feel this again. I have always approached concertos as a chance to show off my skill and musicality, and have never minded when audience members sit in the front during my own recitals.
Thoughts?
Clearly your entire post just breathes humility on your part and no shadow whatsoever should fall upon you. This guy professor or not is just trying to externalize and project his inner turmoil on you.
Please rest in the conviction this is not at all about you! There’s always a risk of bumping into people like him, they come in no small numbers. Sometimes even their facial expression can drive you nuts.
He’s the one to blame and he should know better, teacher and all.Ouch! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:31 am Post subject:
Wow. I don't get any reason, from your account, to interpret any discrepect shown. I hope that my students would, if not needed on stage, move to the audience for a listen. Were you supposed to hide in the back?
If the performer is disctracted by who is in the audience and where they sit, well, that's their problem.
What would he have said had the rolls been reversed? _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:33 am Post subject:
The idea that it's disruptive or disrespectful to sit *anywhere* in the audience... is baffling. As long as you were just sitting quietly and not making any noise, what's the big deal?
As a professional performer, you're expected to be able to adapt to pretty much any situation at all. Get your chops together and know the music well enough that you can play it even if there's a war next door! Be able to play for a room full of strangers, be able to play for your family and friends, be able to play for the Pope, be ready to play in the ideal situation, be ready to play in challenging, distracting situations where you can't see or hear anything - that's your job as a performer!
It sounds to me like someone was displeased and embarrassed about the quality of their performance and is lashing out and blaming anyone but him/herself. Which is classic narcissistic behavior.
Possibility: there may have been someone in the front row that actually was being disruptive and your former teacher thought it was you and blamed you rather than some stranger. It's difficult to see out into the audience from a brightly-lit stage and you may be being blamed for another person's actions. Just a thought.
My advice (which is easy for me to say) - Put it behind you as best you can and when it's your turn to get up there on stage, have your stuff together way better than your former teacher did... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:46 am Post subject:
If there's a seat there, then it isn't rude to sit in it. It's a performance for goodness sake - some people prefer the front row.
If he's that easily distracted then that's his problem, not yours. Sounds like he's full of drama. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
So, when the teacher came onto the stage to perform, you stood up, walked offstage and into the audience, up the aisle for a few rows, and then into the middle of the row, to take a seat. Yes, this does sound a bit rude to me.
Just sitting quietly with the ensemble might have been a better choice. Or leaving the stage well before the performer came on stage or was announced. Or waiting quietly backstage instead of walking up the aisle and crossing a row to the center. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9027 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:16 am Post subject:
Nobody has seen how BbTrumpet1 carried herself or what body language or facial reactions she made during the performance. Everybody seems to be taking her one side at face value.
There's no reason to not support the OP in and of itself, but it's only one side of the story.
Most of the comments I've seen are taking this incident as one sided. I think a little more balance is needed unless otherwise qualified. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:44 am Post subject:
mm55 wrote:
So, when the teacher came onto the stage to perform, you stood up, walked offstage and into the audience, up the aisle for a few rows, and then into the middle of the row, to take a seat. Yes, this does sound a bit rude to me.
Just sitting quietly with the ensemble might have been a better choice. Or leaving the stage well before the performer came on stage or was announced. Or waiting quietly backstage instead of walking up the aisle and crossing a row to the center.
Negative - this is what they said:
"When he came on stage for the concert, I exited the stage. I was expected to sit in the audience and quickly return after..."
The expectation was for them to leave the stage, therefore it was not rude. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
So, when the teacher came onto the stage to perform, you stood up, walked offstage and into the audience, up the aisle for a few rows, and then into the middle of the row, to take a seat. Yes, this does sound a bit rude to me.
Just sitting quietly with the ensemble might have been a better choice. Or leaving the stage well before the performer came on stage or was announced. Or waiting quietly backstage instead of walking up the aisle and crossing a row to the center.
We are required to leave the stage for any performance we are not a part of in this ensemble. Me leaving the stage was pre-arranged by the director. There was a growing tension between us and the director suggested I leave rehearsals and the stage for my own comfort. For my own safety, I won’t share the specific details.
Also, I left the stage at the end of the previous song, well before he made his appearance. I was respectful in my opinion. What I want to know is if there is a standard of etiquette about sitting in the front row.
Last edited by BbTrumpet1 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:00 am; edited 4 times in total
Nobody has seen how BbTrumpet1 carried herself or what body language or facial reactions she made during the performance. Everybody seems to be taking her one side at face value.
There's no reason to not support the OP in and of itself, but it's only one side of the story.
Most of the comments I've seen are taking this incident as one sided. I think a little more balance is needed unless otherwise qualified.
I can assure you I was very respectful in the audience. There were a lot of wrongs done and it was my decision to get out of the studio. I thought things were said and done and I have always been delighted to hear him play, anyways. The friend I also sat next to highly respects him. I just want to know if it is considered rude to sit up close. He has vocally expressed that he is unhappy with me because I brought my problems with him to higher authority, has even talked other professors out of wanting to work with me after I left. For my own safety, the specifics I do not wish to share. But you were not there, so you are entitled to your opinion.
I am not looking for someone to side with me, just want to know: Is it rude to simply sit front row while someone performs a concerto? Of course it is rude to sit anywhere if you are being rowdy or immature.
Also, never once did the professor claim I was being noisy, making faces, etc. in his narrative. His exact words to the friend that sat with me: “you should know how disrespectful and unprofessional it is to sit in the front row while someone is playing a concerto by now. I’d expect someone like her to do something s***ty like that, but not you. It’s a huge distraction to see someone in the corner of your eye when you’re playing.”
Last edited by BbTrumpet1 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:41 am; edited 2 times in total
I might have stayed back stage, if possible, but for me I see nothing wrong with what you did. It is interesting that the prof feels you have that much power over him. Normally the relationship works the other way.
I would’ve felt more comfortable backstage as well but me leaving the stage was standard protocol and as the direction my director gave me. I transferred from a community college where the seating is packed to the front so I’m not used to attending big-staged concerts like such at universities. Just wanted to know if I actually did something wrong so I can avoid doing it again.
Last edited by BbTrumpet1 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:49 am; edited 2 times in total
The idea that it's disruptive or disrespectful to sit *anywhere* in the audience... is baffling. As long as you were just sitting quietly and not making any noise, what's the big deal?
As a professional performer, you're expected to be able to adapt to pretty much any situation at all. Get your chops together and know the music well enough that you can play it even if there's a war next door! Be able to play for a room full of strangers, be able to play for your family and friends, be able to play for the Pope, be ready to play in the ideal situation, be ready to play in challenging, distracting situations where you can't see or hear anything - that's your job as a performer!
It sounds to me like someone was displeased and embarrassed about the quality of their performance and is lashing out and blaming anyone but him/herself. Which is classic narcissistic behavior.
Possibility: there may have been someone in the front row that actually was being disruptive and your former teacher thought it was you and blamed you rather than some stranger. It's difficult to see out into the audience from a brightly-lit stage and you may be being blamed for another person's actions. Just a thought.
My advice (which is easy for me to say) - Put it behind you as best you can and when it's your turn to get up there on stage, have your stuff together way better than your former teacher did...
Not sure why he would be upset, he played wonderfully, which is why I was wondering if sitting near the front row really was a huge disrespect! And I know he knew for a fact where exactly I sat in the audience because he called out the friend I sat next to for being associated with me, which is how this all got back to me.
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:29 am Post subject:
All of this sounds like some butt-hurt caused by other things (I'm guessing that the other things that happened prior to this performance caused him some trouble - possibly even a reprimand) that is manifested in anger and resentment, so he's looking for an excuse or an outlet for it. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
All of this sounds like some butt-hurt caused by other things (I'm guessing that the other things that happened prior to this performance caused him some trouble - possibly even a reprimand) that is manifested in anger and resentment, so he's looking for an excuse or an outlet for it.
It’s definitely likely. I am relieved to know I didn’t commit the ultimate concert etiquette feaux pas!
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject:
Interesting story. Whenever a weird interpersonal situation comes up, I find it helpful to think about it in terms of fairness.
So you and the teacher had a falling out. Does that mean you shouldn't play whenever he's around? Does that mean you should leave the building when he performs? No, of course not. That would be unfair to you.
Should you treat him with respect when he's performing? Yes, of course. That would be fair to him. Sounds like you were fair, too.
There are stories of members of famous bands and orchestras who didn't get along but didn't let that interfere with their music-making. That's called being a professional.
In your situation, I don't think you should have to sit out when this guy performs. That's unfair. He should wear some big-boy pants and do his job, and you should do your job and play your best. Each should treat the other with respect, regardless of the history. That's only fair. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Interesting story. Whenever a weird interpersonal situation comes up, I find it helpful to think about it in terms of fairness.
So you and the teacher had a falling out. Does that mean you shouldn't play whenever he's around? Does that mean you should leave the building when he performs? No, of course not. That would be unfair to you.
Should you treat him with respect when he's performing? Yes, of course. That would be fair to him. Sounds like you were fair, too.
There are stories of members of famous bands and orchestras who didn't get along but didn't let that interfere with their music-making. That's called being a professional.
In your situation, I don't think you should have to sit out when this guy performs. That's unfair. He should wear some big-boy pants and do his job, and you should do your job and play your best. Each should treat the other with respect, regardless of the history. That's only fair.
I definitely agree that people should be able to set aside differences for music. Unfortunately the situation escalated far above simply disliking each other, it was a preventative measure of safety. My band director caught wind of our situation and strongly suggested I sit out, I wasn’t going to argue with my band director, the piece wasn’t really about me and I didn’t want to be blamed for anything that could go wrong (somehow I still was). I was personally okay with being relieved because of how serious the tension was.
I’m a transfer student, so in our little concert hall it is packed to the front row. I didn’t know if there was some sort of standard procedure about seating, so after this came up I knew I needed to ask.
He sounds like an immature individual, who needs to toughen up. I’d have stayed in my seat and not left the stage at all. It’s over now. Nobody died, so just forget about it. Not likely to occur again.
I was instructed to leave the stage by the director.
Understand that it’s not going to happen again, just was wondering if sitting front row was really a no-no.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
