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Relaxing to play high


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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet_cop wrote:
I've already said that yes, there is some tension that has to exist due to muscles working.

What you've said is -

Quote:
It has been pretty well covered that the aperture should NOT be the place of tension otherwise there is no buzz.

This will be inaccurate no matter how many times you say it. I don't care who else says it, at what university or conservatory they teach, what their performing resume is - if they said it they're wrong.

Quote:
However the aperture must remain pliable with as little tension as is needed.

The tissue surrounding the aperture needs as much tension as is needed to produce the desired pitch, volume and sound quality.

Quote:
who has posted enough times demonstrating several gaps in their knowledge

You've repeatedly stated notions in direct conflict with reality and physics.
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trumpet_cop
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Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpet_Cop wrote:
While the Orbicularis Oris (superior and inferior), Risorius, and Zygomaticus major, along with a few others, all work together to form the embouchure as a whole. These muscles work as a team, much like a safety net and if one isn't doing it's job properly due to too much work or too little then there's an issue.

It has been pretty well covered that the aperture should NOT be the place of tension otherwise there is no buzz. Yes, the aperture gets smaller and the pitch gets higher also due to air speed. Things also will feel firm or, "tight" because they are working harder to compete with the increase in airspeed and pressure.


Quote the entire paragraph if you're going to attempt to make me look foolish. You are being childish simply because people are refusing to acquiesce to your wishes to say "tension" in regards to the embouchure. My above bolded statements imply that tension is there. If you can't or are refusing to see that, then you are only getting in your own way.

Here, to appease your childish temper tantrum on the issue I'll go ahead and say it: The muscles work in tandem to apply tension to the tissue. Are you happy? To explicitly instruct a young student to increase the tension in their embouchure vs. finding a different way to phrase that is ignorant and potentially harmful. And since you have refused to give any kind of pedagogical credentials that would make your explanations, while correctly rooted in physics, any better than those of the brass community who have all essentially said that trying to play with as little or as balanced tension in the body as possible is the way to healthy and relaxed playing, I will continue to follow their teachings and advice despite being condemned as inaccurate on this day, July the 15th by the eminent Trumpet Heralder: Robert P![/b][/quote]
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet_cop wrote:
Trumpet_Cop wrote:
While the Orbicularis Oris (superior and inferior), Risorius, and Zygomaticus major, along with a few others, all work together to form the embouchure as a whole. These muscles work as a team, much like a safety net and if one isn't doing it's job properly due to too much work or too little then there's an issue.

It has been pretty well covered that the aperture should NOT be the place of tension otherwise there is no buzz. Yes, the aperture gets smaller and the pitch gets higher also due to air speed. Things also will feel firm or, "tight" because they are working harder to compete with the increase in airspeed and pressure.


Quote the entire paragraph if you're going to attempt to make me look foolish.

Not trying to make you look any particular way, I've stated that certain things you've said are inaccurate. The larger quote above doesn't change the fundamental problems with what you stated. Saying the aperture should not be the place of tension contains some inaccuracies. The aperture isn't tissue, it's the space between the tissue. The part of the lips that actually buzz is basically fatty tissue, yes there is tension there - the tension that exists is from mouthpiece pressure in addition to forces transferred from surrounding musculature.

Quote:
To explicitly instruct a young student to increase the tension in their embouchure vs. finding a different way to phrase that is ignorant and potentially harmful.

The thread was started by a high school player who asked for specifics.

Some have said some things that I find to be misguided - that "tension" should never even be referred to - they apparently favor this over accurately explaining how tension applies.
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Relaxing to play high Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
RobertP wrote:

I regard free-buzzing as worse than useless

I'm not a big free buzzing guy or anything, but there are benefits to it

I hear people adamantly insist this, I have yet to hear a compelling explanation as to what the benefits are of doing something that's utterly dissimilar to playing the horn. It uses muscles in a totally dissimilar way in a circumstance that's completely different - the lips aren't being deformed, compressed and held in the configuration a mouthpiece deforms them, the lips aren't pinned against the teeth, the muscles aren't working against the mouthpiece, you don't have the resistance of the mp and horn, you don't have the acoustics interaction of the mp and horn, the amount of area of the lips that buzzes is different.

Quote:
ACTIVELY tensing your face, meaning applying more tension than is needed

I disagree that this is what actively tensing your face has to mean - it dismisses that someone can learn to actively tense the facial muscles in a useful, functional way in service of playing.

I can tell you for an absolute fact that learning to do exactly that is a big part of what helped me with dysfunctionalities I struggled with. Maybe I'm the only one on the planet this is true of.
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