Choosing a Cornet Mouthpiece Based on Trumpet Mouthpieces

[Craig S]

I hate to start another “Which mouthpiece should I get for XXXX?” thread, but I’m looking for some guidance in buying a cornet mouthpiece. I’ve recently purchased a used ‘80s Holton C602 which did not come with a mouthpiece. I realize that I could’ve found a horn in a similar price point with one, but most of the ones I looked at were either in poor shape or the mouthpiece was disgusting (i.e. I would probably have replaced it anyway). So, I’m hoping to get some input as to how one knows what would work best for him or her based on my current (limited) experience with trumpet mouthpieces.

I currently own and use a Bach Megatone 3C, a Denis Wick 3C, and a Getzen 5C which I don’t use often but have played. The Bach is the most comfortable for me to play for longer periods. The Wick is very comfortable, but I wear out much quicker with it. The Getzen, after playing the Bach or the Wick, seems to give me an easier higher range (I’m sure just due to the smaller size but that goes away after a day or two of playing it exclusively), but my chops wear out even quicker than with the Wick.

So, my questions, based on my above experiences, are:
What would cause me to wear out quicker on the Wick? The Bach and Wick have similar throats. The Wick is a bit bigger rim (16.5 vs 16.3). Is that why? Is it the difference in the backbore style? Is it some imperceptible difference in bite? How do I know what is causing it?

In looking for a cornet mouthpiece, I figure that understanding what’s going on with my chops I would be able to choose good for me rim and throat sizes.

I am looking for a decent darker traditional cornet sound. I'm not going to be using it in a band or for any performances. Purely for my own edification. Regardless, I want something that will not sound too much like a trumpet. From what I’ve been able to find, I should look for a deeper mouthpiece, right? Should I stick to a similar rim size but with a larger throat and cup? Should I go for a similar rim and throat but deeper cup? Should Everything be a bit larger to help get the sound I'm looking for?

I’ve seen the Denis Wick 4B touted as the “standard” cornet mouthpiece, but I worry that the same things that I experience with my trumpet mouthpiece would be echoed with it. I’ve seen great reviews of it on here, but can anyone give me info about the similarities or differences between the Classic Trumpet and the Classic Cornet Wick pieces? I’ve also seen rave reviews for Curry mouthpieces. So, I’m thinking if not a Wick, perhaps a Curry VC would be good.

I do realize that mouthpieces are very personal as to what feels and works best, but I was hoping that figuring out how and why certain trumpet mouthpieces affect me, I would be able to choose the right cornet piece. Thanks in advance for any help!

[brassmusician]

I think a Wick 4 or 4B could work well for you. You will get a good cornet tone and given you are not planning to use your cornet outside the practice room, why worry if it does not give you great endurance?
_________________
Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL

[Andy Del]

[zaferis]

I'm not a Wick mouthpiece fan either.. especially if you're using a Bach on your trumpet, I think the rime shape is drastically different. I like to play on similar if not the same rim, to limit the chops adjustment / confusion.

Curry rims are similar to Bach, so if you don't start with a deeper, cornet version , of your Bach, then Curry may be a more logical step.

The danger is (and what happened to me) that you'll really like the Curry mouthpiece and completely switch to all Curry's.
I don't know if I'd start with the TC cup, I find that a touch more harsh than I want, especially at volume. I'd suggest starting with a 3DC, deeper than a trumpet "3C", then, if and when you want to get more specific, try his TC or BBC...
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Craig S]

[Craig S]

[Craig S]

[Dale Proctor]

Most of the time, going to a deeper mouthpiece cup will affect your endurance a bit. It's a tradeoff - getting a richer, more mellow tone by using a bigger mouthpiece comes at the expense of endurance (which more practice will improve). I've had and played numerous cornet mouthpieces over the years, including Wick 4B, 4, 3, Curry 3TC, 3DC, 3BBC, Stork 4A, 3SC, Bach 1-1/2C, 3, 3B, 3C, 6, 6BM, 7C, 10-1/2C, and various other brands that came with cornets I've acquired.

I play trumpet on a Curry 3C., which I love, but his 3TC and 3DC cornet mouthpieces didn't work well for me at all. The Curry 3BBC is pretty good for a brass band mouthpiece, but is a bit too mellow for general cornet playing. The Curry VC line gives you a vintage sound, but that comes with low endurance and a sound that doesn't project and gets lost in an ensemble. As for other, deeper Bach 3-size mouthpieces, some may recommend a Bach 3B. I used to have one of those, and while it produced a nice sound, the combination of different rim shape, conical cup, and open backbore sucked the life out of me in no time. On a whim. I bought a Bach 3 and have never looked back.

As for a recommendation, try the Bach 3 (no letter) mouthpiece. Its tone isn't as warm and fuzzy as a Wick 4, but it has a really nice, big cornet sound and is not too tiring to play. Plus, the rim size and shape will be familiar to you since you play on a Bach 3C. I bought one a number of months ago and love it. Of course, everyone is different and the Bach 3 may not work for you, but they are cheap enough to give one a try (especially if you find a used one for sale).
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Seymor B Fudd]

[O00Joe]

In response to Craig S regarding Curry rim sizes:

Though Curry's listed diameters are larger than Bach's for same numbered rims, they do feel the same in my experience. I've been a Bach 5 size player since I switched from a Bach 7 size in high school. In my experience, it's best to pay attention more to what a manufacturer says the rim sizes compare to over the stated measurements. Measurements vary depending on how far down the cup the measurement is made.

And just fot kicks, I've found these sizes to all be comparable: Bach 5, Curry 5, Stork Vacchiano 4, Stork Studio Master 6, GR 65, Schilke 13, Denis Wick 4

If and when I procure a cornet (probably a Besson Sovereign 928G), I plan on trying a Curry 5BBC and 5VC, Denis Wick 4B, and Stork 4A. I'm looking for a traditional cornet sound modeled after Gerard Schwarz.
_________________
1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68

[Bob Stevenson]

I have read thru this entire thread of posts and feel impelled to post my thoughts....with absolutely NO wish to offend anyone, but an urge to get people really thinking about this very tricky subject and to examine their true purposes......So, in no particular order;

Firstly, you CAN'T really choose a cornet mpc in relation to a trumpet mpc because there is a very real risk that you will simply 'gain' another inferior trumpet that happens to be shaped like a cornet!........Some people will, of course, be quite satisfied with that and consider the excercise a success.

Cornet and trumpet are quite different instruments, maybe even 'opposing' instruments on that the approach to cornet musicianship is totally different to that of the trumpet and si as much about feel and attitude to lyricism as it is about style. This was firmly backed up by my time as a brass teacher wherein I discovered that young players naturally gravitate to the instrument that appeals to their inner player.....or even their 'soul' perhaps!

The way that real cornet players choose mpcs is from a technical need to encompass everything they are required to play in the music that is put in front of them....this is quite different according to which ensembles they are playing in and also which position they are aiming at........a front row cornet player in a top brass band has a quite different set of needs to a cornet player in a Guards band in London.

Personally, in 50+ years I have seen/heard VERY few trumpet players who aquitted themselves well on a cornet...although many top trumpeters started out from cornet playing, especially in brass bands. Bluntly, a cornet player can more easily learn the 'extrovert' issues of the trumpet player than the trumpet player can learn the tricky subtleties of cornet technique.

I have followed this site for 18 years or so now and time and time again one reads the posts about mpcs for cornets written by trumpet players wherein they search for "traditional dark" cornet sound which can only be granted by 'that' mpc discovery......but, what IS that sound?...do these posters have any real sound envelope in their heads?...where did they hear that sound?....Do/did "traditional" cornet players sound "dark"? The danger of this is the wrong choice of mpc for the wrong reasons by the wrong player!......This whole business gets even more complicated when the words "deep, conical & old-time" are added to the mix. The player looks at teh problem from the wrong end and chooses a big deep mpc which provides an uniteresting and 'muddy' which he/she then spends many hours trying to turn into something worthwhile....usually an impossible task.

[delano]

Great post.

[Craig S]

[Craig S]

[Craig S]

Hi, Bob.

First, thank you for your well thought out post. I don’t see where anyone would take too much offense to most of your thoughts.

Second, while there are many examples of constructive feedback, I see no real input as to how one should, in your view, choose a mouthpiece for a cornet. I agree that the trumpet and cornet are indeed different but similar instruments with their own idiosyncrasies. As I have very little to no experience with a cornet, I have asked for suggestions and advice. I thought that basing my info gathering on my trumpet mouthpieces would give other TH members as much info about me in order to tailor their suggestions and advice toward the experience that I have. Numerous threads on here are filled with someone asking a short, pointed question and other members attempting to help asking for further information in order to aid them. Being the most recent experience I have with any brass instrument, I have provided info on my trumpet pieces.

Third, your experience that cornet players can switch over to trumpet, but not vice versa, seems a bit elitist, to be honest. Are you suggesting that trumpet players simply shouldn’t try to cross over?

Fourth, when I say “dark” or “traditional” cornet sound, I am referring to a sound that is in my head from hearing recordings of cornets being used. It is most obviously not a bright, trumpet sound. Can I point to one player and say “I want to sound like that”? No. Even if there were a single cornetist that I would want to emulate, I would never sound like that person. I may, after many years, sound like a poor imitation, but never JUST like that player.

Lastly, while you do expand well on many of your criticisms, I see little to no information on how I should go about finding a mouthpiece. If I shouldn’t base it on my current trumpet mouthpieces, what should I base it on? I realize that the best case scenario would be to take the horn to a music shop and test a bunch of mouthpieces. Unfortunately, for me, that is not a possibility. There are no shops near to me that I would be able to test some out. The one music store in my town doesn’t even stock cornet mouthpieces.

Thank you, again, for your insightful post. I look forward to benefiting from your vast experience and using it to aid me in my search.

[Craig S]

[steevo]

Craig,

I try find mouthpieces that makes it easy for me to sound the way I want to sound. I have found that regardless of the equipment I use, I will strive to create the sound I have in my head. The equipment choice will only make this harder or easier.

For selecting a cornet mouthpiece for myself, I like find something with a similar rim to what I use for your trumpet, but with a cup that has a little more volume.

I saw Dale's reply talking about how he uses a Bach 3 for cornet, vs. a 3C for trumpet. I have found similar success for me. For my Getzen Eterna, I normally use a Bach 2 (no letter). I have gobs of mouthpieces, and found both a Mt. Vernon 2C and a Mt. Vernon 2 in my collection. The 2 works great in my Getzen, and I am able to sound like the cornet sound I have in my mind. I have to fight the 2C to get the warmth and "velvet" sound I want. For my Conn 80A, I use a Monette B2S5, with the S5 having a bit more volume than the B2S3 I use for trumpet. (But I also don't use the 80A for what I consider "traditional" cornet work - it's another animal entirely.) I am not a huge fan of the deep V cups, as they don't lend themselves for me to easily make the cornet sound I have in my mind.

My best advise is not to make this a hard endeavor. Find something close, and start making music. Develop your cornet sound concept in your head and try to bring it to life on the horn.

[Craig S]

[rockford]

Start out with a Bach 3C. Less variables. Go deeper with the same rim if you’re not satisfied after a few months.
_________________
Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190.

[steevo]