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Is a consultation worth it?


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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: Is a consultation worth it? Reply with quote

Currently I am not in need of a mouthpiece, but I am sure I would want to get a consultation when I am. What are your experiences with consultations? Is it really better than choosing your own?
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deanoaks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the company. Last I checked (and this was in 2013 and I am sure that somebody will come behind me if I'm wrong) GR is the only mouthpiece company that charges for consultations unless you are at ITG/NTC.
I've had consultations with Lotus, Pickett, Yamaha, GR, and Monette. Personally, I've learned a lot about the company missions and more about what I want as a musician. If you're happy and don't care about gear, I'd say that you probably don't want to waste your time. If you're genuinely curious, there is nothing wrong with window shopping right?
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TMT
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like anything, you can teach yourself with careful patient organized study, but you might have more success finding the RIGHT teacher or person to get feedback from. Each company (like each teacher) tends to cater to a different type of playing, so do research first. You don't necessarily need a consultation with the maker so much as a consultation with somebody how has a LOT of good mouthpieces you can try for free. Start getting an idea what is comfortable in terms of rim, throat, backbore, cup depth and shape, then when you FINALLY find your golden mouthpiece, be prepared to let that go and narrow your search down even further when you actually try it in a playing situation, because no amount of study in the practice room will give you the same feedback as five minutes playing with a group. Record yourself, get feedback from other players; a consult will try to find the right mouthpiece in a particular line for you, but if that line isn't geared toward the sound YOU want, you will be fighting the mouthpiece from day one. Spend some money and seek out people who aren't just friends, who won't hesitate to tell you what you don't want to hear. I really wish more teachers were gearheads with a drawer of mouthpieces, I think a lot of world-class players have benefited by somebody who was like this.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would need more time, including time on the job to begin to evaluate a mouthpiece. A mouthpiece might feel good at first, but I might not get on with it at work, so, for me a consultation (especially if it isn't the mouthpiece manufacturer that has vested interest in me buying one of his mouthpieces) might be helpful, but when all is said and done, I'm the one who is going to play the mouthpiece. That matters to me more than somebody who thinks one might sound better than another.

BTW, I wouldn't pay for this.
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Is a consultation worth it? Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
Currently I am not in need of a mouthpiece, but I am sure I would want to get a consultation when I am. What are your experiences with consultations? Is it really better than choosing your own?


I had a consultation with Alexa Yates; it was time and money well spent. I was able to try at least ten different mouthpieces with her guidance.

One of my friends had a consultation with someone else and was disappointed.
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hose
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over many years I've had great advice from many makers and colleagues. I've had two playing "consultations" with different manufacturers. They all possessed "great ears". But until I played any chosen mpc in an ensemble I really couldn't tell how that mpc was going to fare in the combo of me, my horn and my environment. (Maybe that's a personal weakness when trying alone.)

Until I finally figured out that no mpc was going to do everything I wanted equally well I was doomed to a perpetual safari. Using one mpc is a trade off...a compromise. I figured out what aspects of playing was important immediately and what aspects would eventually take care of themselves. Trpt for me is a lot easier now without safaris.
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ScottA
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who does do consultations I would like to chime in a bit. First I would like to mention that I have never charged for a consultation. Some GR consultants do and some do not. I own a music store and consider it part of my customer service. If I were making a living as a player/private teacher I believe I would be charging for my time accordingly.

The idea that someone doing a consultation is simply out to sell you a mouthpiece is quite short sighted. I imagine that there may be individuals and even companies out there whose sole purpose is to sell you as many products as possible. During my training period with Gary Radke he emphasized many times that he would prefer consultants (including himself) not sell a mouthpiece rather than sell someone the wrong mouthpiece. There is just no long term future if your only goal is to sell a mouthpiece no matter what.

In my view the value the consultant brings to the meeting is an in depth knowledge of the product line. By hearing how one mouthpiece may not be working optimally for a given player the consultant should know where to turn in the mouthpiece line to get better results in a given area such as response, flexibility or attacks. Obviously the player will be the final arbiter of the end result. It does not happen often but there have been times at the end of a consultation where the player and I agree that the set up they came in with is the one that is working the best for them. Sometimes that confirmation is more valuable as anything they might purchase.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a couple of consultation-type things over the years in an effort to get into a mouthpiece setup that was going to hopefully achieve a particular desired goal. I think that there also needs to be an actual tryout aspect of it, and I'm willing to do this IF I can get a refund if I decide not to purchase. With that being said, I'm perfectly ok with paying a restocking fee if that's part of the deal - that's fair IMO.

In those times, the only one that really worked was a few years back when I had the opportunity to chat with Ken Titmus at Warburton. He took his time, chatted about my current equipment setup, what I felt was deficient, and what I was hoping to achieve for the kind of playing I was doing. I never felt rushed - he has always made me feel like I was his #1 priority every time I talked to him.

I think the most important part of what happened when I worked with Ken was that he flat out told me about some things to expect during the adjustment phase of getting used to the mouthpiece setup I ordered, and that there might be a time where things would be a bit thin, and I might lose my top note or two in range. He said that was normal, and to be patient and work through it - he said I'd get those notes back and they'd be stronger than they were before.

I mention that because I think Ken the only person I've consulted with about a mouthpiece who was realistic with me about the fact that the mouthpiece might actually be slightly worse for a time than my old setup, and by telling me some things to expect during the acclimation process. He was 100% correct on all of it, and I came away from it with a mouthpiece that has worked very very well for what I was hoping to gain with a switch:

1.) Brilliance and cut in the sound (4SWV top on a KT backbore)
2.) Improved accuracy (more defined inner bite than what I had)
3.) Good endurance (Set me up with a 4SVW (wide) top instead of just a 4SV - the SVW top adds a touch of surface area to spread out the contact points on the chops)
4.) Possible improvement in ease of upper register

To summarize, this is a mouthpiece consultation that was absolutely worth my time. Between that mouthpiece and a Jupiter 1600I trumpet, they make it easy to be as good as I can be when I'm gigging with the wedding band.
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trumpetchops
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go. Look at it as a trumpet lesson. As far as, will the mouthpiece work? I don't think anyone can tell until you play on it for a while. I think you have a better shot working with someone that understands than just picking one.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consultation is better, as long as the consultant knows what he/she is talking about.

Don't expect a perfect fit, identifying the one-and-only piece that could possibly work for you. A good consultant will get you close. You'll have to spend time getting acclimated to the piece, and you may need to fine-tune the configuration choice a bit.

I got help from Phyllis Stork several years back, and she nailed it. I'm still playing the same piece. I've wandered off a few times, but I keep coming back.
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Type3B
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought a GR mouthpiece after a personal consultation with a GR-trained rep. Didn't work at all. Bought a Stomvi mouthpiece after email advice with KO Skinsnes at Stomvi. Ended up with something very different that works like a charm. Go figure.
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Type3B
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is--the Stomvi works like a charm.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Type3B wrote:
Bought a GR mouthpiece after a personal consultation with a GR-trained rep. Didn't work at all. Bought a Stomvi mouthpiece after email advice with KO Skinsnes at Stomvi. Ended up with something very different that works like a charm. Go figure.


Who gave your GR consultation? Was it in person?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it pretty common sense that, if you get a consultation from a specific-brand representative your recommendation is going to be a mouthpiece from that brand only?

Why would a Schilke consultant tell you your best bet is to get a Bach? The best consultants to me were either from a music merchandiser with a wide range of brands from which to choose, or a merchant of a specific brand that you are trying to fine-tune within that brand.

What I mean is, that I had been playing a Purviance, wanted to stay with Purviance, and had Carrol personally give me a free consultation of his products in his shop. Fine tuning within the brand.

In that case, it made perfect sense to have a same-brand consultation. But for a general consultation of what, out of many, is the best suited for me, would not come from a same-brand seller. S/he's only going to recommend his product.
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Type3B
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the consultation with the GR rep was in person, and at length. I prefer not to name the rep because it is not my intention to disparage this person, but rather only to say that an in-person consultation does not guarantee a good outcome (nor does a shot-in-the-dark eBay purchase guarantee failure). I'm sure that there's a GR mouthpiece that would work for me, but the consultation did not find it. I will say this, though: with Stomvi, I was not stuck with the mouthpiece if it didn't work, as they have a trial/return policy, whereas I was stuck with the GR (although I did recoup some of my money by selling it on eBay). You go into a shoe store. The clerk precisely measures your foot. "This should work." It doesn't. The measurements are correct, but the shoes just don't feel right. Mouthpieces too: you may have to try on quite few before you find one that fits and feels good. Measurements may put you in the ballpark, but they don't necessarily guarantee you a seat behind the first-base dugout.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. The mouthpiece needs to feel good on your chops. No consultant can tell you this. If the mouthpiece doesn't feel right, and neither do any of the others, it could be that the brand isn't right for you.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Brian Scriver will have something to say here but as a GR dealer we are told that if it isn't broken, don't fix it. On other words, if their present mouthpiece works well, we leave them with their present mouthpiece.
I have sent players away with their mouthpiece simply because it was a good one for them and I had nothing better.
It is always up to the player to decide what feels good to them.

R. Tomasek
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Jordan Hoffman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a consultation, (GR Mouthpieces) over Skype. I can't speak for other mouthpiece manufactures. But this is what I personally got out of it in my meet up with Brian Scriver and in doing my due diligence with GR.

In general, I gained a deeper understanding of the Mechanics of the whole trumpet playing system. i.e. not just mouthpiece and horn but how I as the player need to understand the mechanics of the 1 Player, 2 Mouthpiece, and 3 Trumpet, and how these three things must work together. When you understand the mechanics of how these 3 pieces work and fit into the system, you are then able to make choices that allow for maximum efficiency which leads to playing with as much ease as possible. Good mechanics= efficiency= ease of playing= good MUSIC.

The old 'leave well enough alone, it's working so why mess with it' farmer Joe psychology just doesn't cut it for me personally. No one has ever amounted to anything extraordinary with that kind of thinking. I've never been a gear junkie, and have been able to make just about any setup work.. But that said, I think it's important for serious playing to dig into the details and get serious about finding the best equipment for them personally. Even if it's just one time, looking under the hood is a good thing. Then you won't have to wonder anymore. It's tempting to be lazy, but it's worth the effort to find what works best for you.

We found that the 66M was the best piece for me. For many years I was hell-bent on the Bach 3C, I kept coming back to it always, there was nothing better out there for me/ I would play it till death.. But even after just a few days on the 66M, it was so painfully obvious to me how much better this piece worked that my old Bach 3C gained a new occupation in the field of office equipment- Paper Weight... I could drop all my other pieces in the lake at this point but they make nice decorations so I'll keep them around.

What changed from the 3C to the GR 66M? ~I no longer have any air before my notes even when playing very softly. I have more control. I have more flexibility. I can now actually play below low C decently (this was very difficulty for me as a lead guy). Every single note I play is about 5-10% easier than it was while sounding better than I did. This alone was worth it. In short, this mouthpiece/ the education that I received from GR took my playing up another notch because everything is just that much easier now and will be till I'm done! Ha ha
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SJMass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on quite the search for the "mouthpiece" but I found when I take the time to talk to companies the outcome is better and I feel more confident rather than hoping it may work out.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Food for thought:


http://www.jaegerbrass.com/jaeger/Mouthpieces.html

http://www.trumpetmaster.com/threads/jens-lindemann-on-mouthpieces-please-read-before-asking-about-mouthpieces.65691/
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