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Tongue position



 
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bondav
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Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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Location: france

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Tongue position Reply with quote

I have a question about the tongue position.
When you tongue on lips, do the tongue touch the lips after the tonguing action if you do a long tone?
In the same way, when you do slurs, you tongue on lips the fisrt attack of the sound, then you do the slurs. Do the tongue touch the lips during the slurs (after the attack)?
Not sure to be crystal clear...

Thanks
david
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Zack_Mac
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Joined: 13 Aug 2014
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Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throughout secondary school and the first couple years of University, I would articulate on the lips. I noticed that I did not like the sound of my articulation and it was effecting other aspects of my playing. But nobody ever taught me how to articulate properly. I then brought it up to my trumpet teacher and he flipped out and said something along the lines "Don't ever f***** do that." We then spent the next six months learning how to articulate properly.

That was mostly done by working through the Arban's book and using the syllable he recommends, "tu." TH says you're in France so I assume you speak French and you will know the proper pronunciation of that syllable.

All that aside, if you want to articulate on the lips (which I believe there are some method books out there that teach that) that is fine. However, I would not let the tongue rest on the lips during long tones or slurs. This could impede on the vibration of the lips and effect your sound. Even when I articulated on the lips, I always left my tongue behind my back teeth.

Hope that helps.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZacMac, you are welcome to your opinion, but this is a dedicated forum (BE).

David, the tongue position after the attack is a variable. Most players do not keep touching the lips. However, those who anchor tongue, or those who have more of a RO setup, may find it helpful to keep the tongue in contact with the inner part of the bottom lip.

Are you asking because you naturally fell into the habit of doing this? Or, are you asking because someone told you that it was a good idea?

Jeff
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bondav
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff, I'm asking because I'm lost between BE and Callet since years( with some good results, but..) and I recently find (in my opinion) that let the tongue on lips all the time doesn't give a good sound.
I felt that tongue on lips only during the attack gave me a sound closer to what I ear in the BE's cd.
I would to know what do you recommend to your students, generaly?
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Bert
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,

I practiced BE (still do) and TCE for a long time. The more you are able to let go of thinking about tongue position, the better it is. Both in BE and TCE there are some exercises that are very clear about where to place the tongue (actually BE more than TCE, since there is a lot of fuzz about the exact use of the tongue), but in BE this is only an exercise to get the lips moving in a more efficient way. In TCE you are supposed to anchor the tongue on your bottom lip for all playing. You also have the Claude Gordon K-Tongue Modified (KTM) which is more of an anchor between tongue and bottom teeth.
I practiced them all, but when I don't think about it, my natural position would be a loose anchor on the bottom lip. I can almost always feel my bottom lip, but I try not to overthink this, because then I tend to anchor it in a more rigid way which sits in the way of flexibility and my overall playing.
I think that you are fine practicing all these different kinds of tonguing, also things like doodle, double and triple tonguing are very benificial, but if you perform, dno't think, just play and use whatever feels most comfortable. There is just not one way to articulate, and there is not one way to practice this. The boring answer is: if it feels and sounds good, it is good. I found this out after long periods of rigidly trying to fit in with TCE, KTM, BE or whatever.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

Bert wrote a good answer.

You wanted to know what I recommend to my students. As you know, there is nothing about anchor tonguing in the BE book. So, unless they have prior exposure to TCE, none of my students ever ask about where the tongue goes after the attack. None of them! Yet, somehow they muddle through.

I am not opposed to anchor tonguing. For whatever reason, I have just not found it necessary to introduce it in my student's development.

Jeff
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bondav
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, it's clear.

Thanks, jeff and bert

david
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