Starting Safari

[sam1750]

Starting Safari, my teacher says that my sound is very dark, I currently use a mouthpiece monette B4S, He recommended something that has a more standard sound, I tried a Bach 3C Corp. and it seemed very tight when blowing, I tried with a Yamaha 14B4 and I have the sound I was looking for but it still feels a bit tight in the upper register or when playing loudly, which mouthpiece or combination throat, cup and backbore can you suggest to reduce my mouthpiece safari?

[CJceltics33]

Why is having a dark sound a bad thing? Many great players have a dark sound.

Generally a shallower cup gives or a tighter backbone give brighter sounds.

[LSOfanboy]

[delano]

LSOfanboy is right, you can follow his advice. I have not the knowledge he has but also in my experience the B4S is a mouthpiece on the bright side of the spectrum with a rich, full, brassy trumpetsound, IMO a standard sound though I am not sure what your teacher means by that (Bach?).
Disclaimer: I play the Kanstul copy M-B4S

[J-Walk]

[TMT]

[quote="sam1750"] which mouthpiece or combination throat, cup and backbore can you suggest to reduce my mouthpiece safari?[/quote]

Couple things. A mouthpiece is only deep or shallow based on your particular amount of lip intrusion (I play with a lot of lip in the cup so shallow mouthpieces seem REALLY shallow, while for somebody else the opposite can be true). More likely what he means by dark is lacking resonance. Try some air only attacks, thinking warm air (physically, as in blow on the back of your hand; if it's cool your throat is closed, say "hah" until you feel hot air, then breathe that way into your trumpet and bring your lips together until the sound starts). Your sound will likely become more harsh up close than it was. This translates to brilliant and ringing in a larger hall.

Second point, what trumpet are you playing? And what style of music?

3rd point, if it isn't just a problem with playing in the resonant center and you want something else to try with a similar blow, and are having trouble with high and loud...you might need a bigger than standard throat and backbore on whatever rim/cup feels comfortable to you. 14B4 is probably a tad narrower than what your were playing and likely has a different rim shape. The MTV 3C rim shape lends a lot of weight to the sound (it's almost identical to an Mt Vernon 1.25) The shape of that rim might be part of why you like the sound better on the Yamaha, and also the tighter backbore/throat (which is why we go on safari, because we want a certain sound AND a certain blow together, and unless you hit the magic combo for you and your horn this can often be mutually exclusive). I have a 15B4 that is roughly the size of a modern Bach 3C so if you like the 14B4 you might be looking for pieces that say they are equivalent to the 5 series in Bach. But try to go systematically, changing one thing at a time. Honestly a good starting place might be to try the Rod Franks piece from Yamaha, it has a relatively narrow cup with a big free-blowing throat yet tight(ish) backbore and is fairly hard to play with a less than brilliant sound. Or the CG3 from Kanstul, another piece that comes stock with very atypically large throat and backbore. Maybe on these the sound isn't what you want while the blow is, or vice versa, contact a maker like Frost and ask for recommendations. Go systematically trying new things (It took me two years to more or less realize I like 23 throats, only being fairly systematic did the pattern begin to emerge), and be prepared to spend a bit; the sooner you actually go through the process of finding a good match, the sooner your playing can benefit from it.

Lastly, RECORD yourself every step of the way, both in a big and small space. This will save you major $$$. Oh, and ask your teacher and everybody you know if you can borrow their spare mpieces to try. I've had teachers that never offered and so I never thought to ask.

[John Mohan]

If you are otherwise happy with your mouthpiece I would agree with the others who suggest you work on brightening up your sound. As you sustain a note, roll your lips inward a bit and notice how it brightens the sound. With practice you can learn to darken or brighten your sound by adjusting your embouchure.

Another option would be to get a brighter playing trumpet than what you currently play on (yes, this would be a rather expensive option). Schilke B3, Benge CG, Selmer CG, Burbank 6XCG, Burbank 3XMLP, Getzen Eterna, Kanstul 1601 and the Yamaha Bobby Shew and Wayne Bergeron models are all brighter sounding (and very nice playing) trumpets.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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[Sharkbaitboi]

Monette Prana. Cheap

[Pete]

You can always go to the Monette B4LD S1 if you want a bit brighter sound. I personally don't play everything on one mouthpiece. Use the B4S when you want to and the other for a brighter sound. It's cheaper than buying another horn. Or have the Bach 3C throat opened up a bit. It doesn't have to be an expensive mouthpiece to be a good mouthpiece. Another mouthpiece is the Warburton 4M (around a Bach 3D) with around a 7 or 7* backbore.

Pete

[delano]

After reading this thread another time I got a little bit a feeling that there maybe some other problem. I am not a teacher but I can imagine that a teacher who wants to change something in the setup of a student uses sometimes extenuating language. Especially when the student just invested a heap of dollars in a Monette mouthpiece. So a "too dark" sound could be a nice formulated undefined sound, maybe caused by too big a mouthpiece. The Monette B4S is as big as an 1 1/2 C and, I presume, has a bigger throat and backbore than the Bach. So it's not a very easy mouthpiece.
A little bit smaller diameter, 27 throat and a little bit tighter backbore could do the trick.
Yes, I am aware that this is all speculation.

BTW I played a 14B4GP for years and I never had the feeling that it was a particular tight mouthpiece though it has a semi-narrow backbore.
For loudness the 14B4GP is much better (easier) than the standard 14B4.

[Joshua712]

So....the monettes have massively large throats (like 18 or 19!) so maybe a good place to start would be something of similar design but more conventional in size? 26 or 27 throat would be great starting grounds. Also don’t feel like you need to go shallower in the cup to get the brilliance you’re after. A c cup with a standard throat should work pretty well for you

Just my $0.02
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JPS

[Sharkbaitboi]

Get the wynton mouthpiece. It gives you an instawynton sound

[lexluther]

Ah, the safari..... I don't personally believe it ever ends. Over time, my mouthpieces have changed, each time for the better. I practice 3 plus hours daily and have for years. At first I used pieces that helped with what I wanted to accomplish (mostly range). I went from a 7, to a 5, then to a 3 and played the 3ish Piece for several years. What’s interesting is that I have always held on to one MP that has always felt good for me. It is a Yamaha 16C4: At first it seemed that I could play it well, but only for a short period of time. It also drastically affected my range, so it went back in the drawer. A year later I pulled it out and it was the same. The feel however was perfect for me. Two years passed and I pulled it out again. This time was different, I found my tone and endurance greatly enhanced. I didn’t tell anyone I switched, not even my teacher. The compliments started rolling in from everyone who sat near me. Of course my teacher noticed it immediately. My wife accused me of getting a new Trumpet and not telling her lol..Also, I found that This time I didn’t lose any range at all. So I waited for the honeymoon to end and it never did. The only way I can rationalize this is that with time on the horn my chops have strengthened and allowed me to make equipment changes for the better. So therefore, I will always be open minded about mouthpieces and will always advise, play what works for you. Just because it works for someone else, doesn’t mean it’s the MP for you.
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[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
All the talk about the mouthpiece..What horn are you using?
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Christian K. Peters
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