Tone on Eb/D trumpet

Vin DiBona · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject:

As stated the Getzen 300 Eb/D is not a very good horn at all. As James Becker said and I completely concur, the bell just isn't very good.
I have one and will not play it in public. It can have a nice sound on one note and a very squirrely sound on another. Plus, it is a pain to play in tune.
R. Tomasek

LSOfanboy · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347

Didymus · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: 300 vs. 900

Was the Getzen 990eds a better playing instrument than the 300 series Eb/D?

Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

TMT · Regular Member Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 73

Some misinformation floating around this thread.

Malcolm endorses B&S and plays their medium bore Bb for public events, etc. but he finished out his career in the studios on his Schilke Eb. Which he played for reasons previously mentioned in interviews and here in this thread.

Malcolm played medium bore New York Bach Bbs before his switching to mostly Eb in the 90's. He sounds precise and present, and yes, sometimes not as huge as Maurice Murphy did, but his resonant centered sound will fill up a room in a way that is utterly thrilling. And it shows up clear and precise on tape (which he reportedly cared about enough to start bringing his own mic to sessions). A lot is in the mastering, too. On some soundtracks Malcolm's sound utterly dominates, others it is appropriately chamber sounding, others its mixed away almost entirely. This is especially noticeable with say, Randy Newman scores, where each instrument's parts are SO soloistic and chamber like and turn on a dime. Bigger horns can easily sound less precise. Malcolm sounds nimble, and one way he achieves this is that he plays short notes SHORT. The front to the note is articulate and instantly resonant and then gone if it is simply an accent note and not melodic. And the ENTIRE orchestra sounds cleaner because of it.

Also, according to Rick Baptist, "The reason they [composers] like the smaller horn is that, when they write HIGH trumpet notes, They want it to blend and not stick out over the orchestra, but, they want the notes, so, it is much easier to play the E flat [or pic] and relax."

Rick switched to the P7 because it got him a similar sound as an Eb with less work.

Not so much anymore, but back in the 80's, 90's and 00's we're talking multiple movies, shows, etc a day, 7 days a week, with double, sometimes triple sessions. All over town. A whole LOT of a very specific type of playing, WAY more than anybody anywhere else in the world was doing that type of work. And EVERY take, from the 1st to the 30th had to be (mostly) free of mistakes.

Which is why the section helps each other out. Rick did indeed play lead on Incredibles. Both he and Wayne could handle the lead book on their own, but both also had their own strengths and a good section (just like in London studios where John Barclay and Derek Watkins could play lead for days and Maurice stayed fresh and still had the control handle the raised pinky playing) means everybody plays to their strengths. The biggest thing here that differs from every other type of music is the need to play screaming big band, crappy chop-killing marching band source music, dainty exposed playing, incredible powerhouse brass, etc, often times instantly back to back.

The London pickup orchestras are fantastic, but so much of the sound of the trumpet section depends on the mix. John Powell actually stopped using Malcolm (and Rick becames his first trumpet) because he wanted ONLY large Bb horns on lead for his scores. Amazing writing and unreal trumpet parts, but more and more the mix Powell prefers has his trumpets and brass as an equal voice, so no matter how deafeningly huge his brass section sounds in the room (and believe me, it doesn't get much better than sitting right there in the middle of it), it is mixed down until it sounds tiny and tinny on tape. This was why Phil Cobb didn't sound like Maurice Murphy on the score to Solo, when in other situations (the new John Williams disc the LSO did) Cobb sounds every bit his successor.

It's all personal preference. Rick sounds different on Superman Returns. Malcolm sounds different on the Indiana Jones theme than Maurice Murphy did (and for my money Indy 4 is the definitive recording, I like his Eb playing on John Williams scores even more than his Bb playing of the 70's and 80's, the resonance is so focused it sounds like crystal).

And as has been said before it isn't about sounding as big as possible at all times as is the symphonic standard these days, it's about getting the job done accurately and being able to check your ego at the door and play everything as musically as possible, because every take is likely to be the definitive (read: only) recording of that piece of music. EVER.

Anyway.

LSOfanboy · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347

Great great stuff above from TMT.

Amazing information, all very interesting!

Agree with it all. I would add that Baptist's comments regarding composers preferring the sound of the 'smaller horn' is perhaps more about the precise and unforced quality, rather than for the tone quality itself. In my humble opinion, there are some are only a handful of truly special players out there who are able to combine the warm and full sound of the Bb trumpet with the precision, smoothness and unforced quality of a smaller instrument. Phil Cobb has to be the greatest example of this: https://youtu.be/qiBW-A0EeKU

That is what I personally strive for. Once I get to a point where it simply isn't reliable enough then I'll move to the smaller trumpets, but as much as I can- I'll try to play the Bb. The sound of a Bb being played with complete control is pretty hard to beat.

All the best

TMT · Regular Member Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 73

Yeah Phil Cobb's the real deal. I'd say he's probably the most exciting young trumpet player out there right now, period. He's got musicality and assurance in every note the way even most mature players don't. If he'd play his short notes a little shorter it would make the band as a whole sound less ponderous and more nimble, but again just personal preference.

LSOfanboy · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347

TMT · Regular Member Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 73

Good on him! Just goes to show how different someone sounds sitting next to them in person vs out in the hall or on tape.

TMT · Regular Member Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 73

Fantastic clip btw!! But a good example of what I was talking about. His notes have an enormous amount of front but when you listen closely they aren't actually very short at all. Crazy, I wonder if the sight read it...

cheiden · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject:

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:18 am Post subject:

LSO, it isn't the player and you can bank on that. Everyone I've ever had try that instrument has the same reaction. Those players were of better than amateur status with high skills.
The bell is lousy and the instrument fights you on just too many notes. If you played for a while, you'd know what I mean.
R. Tomasek

LSOfanboy · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:54 am Post subject:

How notes lie on the horn is dictated to some extent by physics. It is tedious but not too hard to calculate out-of-tune notes occurring due to the impact of the bell (or other tubes). This also relates to slotting and can show that certain notes can be "squirrely" even when right next to other in the scale. Acoustic resonances can be narrow and deep. It is most certainly not always the player's fault.
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley