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Discouraged in my playing.



 
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trumpet_mike
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Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Discouraged in my playing. Reply with quote

Nothing is more honest about one’s playing ability than an audio recording of oneself. I now hate myself.

Man, I just bought a new mouthpiece and thought it was going to help with my playing, nope, still suck. I just suck $60 poorer.

I also purchased the Irons book and will start working my way through that. I have never taken private lessons due to financial restraints. How do I incorporate them into my practice. For that matter, how do I even practice. 20 years was a long time ago.
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouthpiece changes have always been, for me anyway, about fine tuning. As an example, my last mouthpiece changes were made for the specific reasons of cleaning up my playing with more defined slotting due to a more defined inner bite, (my lead/commercial setup) and darkening/rounding the tone out with a slightly deeper cup and slightly more open backbore. (my "legit" setup) The changes it brought about were minor, and more about playing percentages, i.e., I had 15% fewer misses over the course of a wedding band gig, or there is a general improvement on timbre/blend for my classical playing - that kind of thing.

Don't hate yourself though. There are a couple of sayings that I employ regularly that help to keep me grounded and realistic when it comes to various things I'm working on:

1.) Rome wasn't built in a day. (It was built brick by brick, stone by stone, over a long period of time.)
2.) Everything is easy when you know how.

Keep recording yourself too. Not only will it expose the things you need to improve, but it will also highlight the things you do well, so that you can streamline to reduce the bad while reinforcing the good.

Good luck with it!
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two things that made me stop hating my recordings are breathing and James Stamp. Breathing is the foundation for all your sound. And the Stamp method allowed me to both play much better in tune, but also to make each note ring.

Irons is great but use it in moderation and in balance with other method books like Schlossberg and Clark.
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trumpet_mike
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Joined: 11 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

I really need to just come off of a couple hundred bucks and take a couple months of lessons. There are so many method books. I don't know how I am supposed to incorporate them into a practice session. Should I just start playing through them from page 1 or do one etude or lesson out of each one, each practice session? I honestly don't know.

I didn't get a very good foundation when I first started playing. I just played and no one told me different.
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JetJaguar
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some free instructional vids. I haven't watched any but they look upbeat: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrxdsDoHLjSbcPgnsWLQvxg
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OldKing
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Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 89
Location: Boerne, TX

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We shall never surrender..."

Keep your chin up.

The Irons book is great. I use it every day. Read and re-read his written instructions. I refer to them all the time.
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JetJaguar
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Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can really help to define some concrete goals to achieve, instead of just looking at your playing as a whole and thinking it sucks. Plus, terminology is relative. One time someone on here said "I've gotten to the point in my improv soloing where I almost suck at it". Meaning he started at a place worse than sucking. I got a kick out of that.
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece

www.jazzscales.org

The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1719
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If nothing else - with the recording, you're more aware.
When you're aware, you can deal with it.

It would be worse to not know and not improve.
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cbclead
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Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 144
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the same as cheiden - the Stamp method helped me more than any other method or book I have tried. Now, I'll admit, finding a teacher that studied with Stamp would be your best bet. However, the Hip-BoneU video Principles of Exceptional Trumpet Playing with Malcolm McNab may be the next best thing:

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/exceptionaltrumpet/91870130

Malcolm lays out the basics of the Stamp method, including lots of playing examples, all for only $5. He also talks about how Jimmy Stamp and the Stamp method are responsible for his 50+ year career in the Los Angeles studios.

I highly recommend watching it. It's probably the best $5 I've ever spent on my trumpet playing.
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbclead wrote:
I feel the same as cheiden - the Stamp method helped me more than any other method or book I have tried. Now, I'll admit, finding a teacher that studied with Stamp would be your best bet. However, the Hip-BoneU video Principles of Exceptional Trumpet Playing with Malcolm McNab may be the next best thing:

I acknowledge that my opinion is based on my many years of study with a highly regarded Stamp student, who it so happens has coached for some years at Camp McNab.
https://www.malcolmmcnab.com/camp-mcnab
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet_mike wrote:
There are so many method books. I don't know how I am supposed to incorporate them into a practice session. Should I just start playing through them from page 1 or do one etude or lesson out of each one, each practice session? I honestly don't know.

Here's a serious question: Do we really "need" method books to do basic work on technique?

Here's another serious question: If we could only have one method book, would there be anything wrong with limiting ourselves to the Arban's book?

Much of the work I do to maintain and re-refine technique comes from basic stuff I do that I make up on my own, and I'm not playing out of a method book at all. (I say "re-refine" because there are times where I have gaps between times I play, so I have to knock the cobwebs off.)

As an example, if you can't do double tonguing through basic scale patterns, what good is a double tonguing exercise out of a method book going to do you?

When it comes to method books, it isn't THAT you play through them, it's HOW you WORK through them.

I'm also firmly of the belief that when a player is working to refine their playing, sometimes reading an exercise off of a page can actually become detrimental to what you are trying to accomplish. We get focused on what's on the page rather than what's happening between us and the horn. If you take the written page out of it, you can really get down to business and focus on making the incremental small changes that bring about building and refining technique.

I think that method books can be important, but I have about 2 that I regularly work out of - Arban's and Clarke's Technical Studies. The rest of the time I'm doing things without a page or book, or I'm specifically working on music for an upcoming gig.

Take all of this with a healthy grain of salt though. I'm a solid player who continues to work and get paid, but I'm not some virtuoso, and I'm not locking down a seat in any kind of a major symphony or anything.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1529
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Discouraging Reply with quote

Hello Mike,
Books are only tools. If you don't know how to use the tool, a book is useless. So it is not how many books you need. perhaps at this point you just need a person. Videos by Trent Austin, Steve Dillard and others are great resources of technique and example. The problem with being older and playing, is that we tend to be conceptually way ahead of where we think we should be. We know the difference, thus we know we 'suck' when we compare ourselves with others around us. Recording ourselves, provides an awareness of our deficiencies. If you can't emulate another players concept into your own, it is time to seek a human in either interaction of experiences or instruction. If you are a comeback player from a high school experience, you are limited by what you knew then. If you played in college, at least you rubbed shoulders with those who took lessons if you didn't already have some yourself. If you are only our $60 for one mouthpiece, consider yourself lucky. I dare say, that many of us have a whole rack of those things not in use. I learned more about the actual physical approach to trumpet playing, after college and just playing and talking with others of different experiences. Pick some brains and get to a place where you know what will make you an even better player. I got close to being a first tier player in my community, but never did break the barrier. But I always try to work to the best of my abilities and push just a little harder to accomplish what I can.
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