| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
area51recording
Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 480
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| delano wrote: | [quote="area51recording"
Whatever man.....have a blessed day |
Thanks and I am glad that all your days seem to be blessed.[/quote]
Thank YOU. In fact, they are.....btw, how long would you like to keep this up? I've got plenty of time  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike Sailors wrote: |
Posting is like trying to walk through a minefield . . .
That's true, therefore I advise you to read all the posts before answering.
In NYC, big bands are still playing. People like them. They don't pay great (they never really did except for the most popular bands), but people do like them.
As always, sweeping generalizations are often times not correct. Your post is a good example.
It's of course a generalisation, I already posted that. But I took here the position of the Devil's advocate on purpose and I know that musicians don't like to hear that pioint of view. BTW there is more in the world than NY city.
|
Last edited by delano on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| area51recording wrote: | | .....btw, how long would you like to keep this up? I've got plenty of time |
Well, that gives you the opportunity to find something useful to do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: |
Posting is like trying to walk through a minefield . . .
That's true, therefore I advise you to read all the posts before answering.
In NYC, big bands are still playing. People like them. They don't pay great (they never really did except for the most popular bands), but people do like them.
As always, sweeping generalizations are often times not correct. Your post is a good example.
It's of course a generalisation, I already posted that. But I took here the position of the Devil's advocate on purpose and I know that musicians don't like to hear that pioint of view. BTW there is more in the world than NY city.
|
|
I did read the whole thread, which is why I said what I said.
Yea, of course. I was just pointing out how wrong you were by offering up my own experience. Try not to take it personal.
_________________
www.mikesailors.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
In strict logic, as long as there is one bigband left in the whole world the statement that bigbands died is not true. But strict logic is for nerds. The problem is that in case of social tendencies and movements the strict logic will not bring us any further. It's then about less or more.
So be proud on your niche in NY scene but realise that that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Open your mind a little bit for abstract thinking and read the thread again, reading can be difficult. And please, don't take this personal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I’ll try to open my mind. Any other advice for me?
_________________
www.mikesailors.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crose
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 188
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
No advice, but a sincere thank you Mike for taking the time to post.
Too few folks who make a living playing are willing to deal with the trolls......
Always appreciate what you have to share with those of us who want to learn
Thanks Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
area51recording
Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 480
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | area51recording wrote: | | .....btw, how long would you like to keep this up? I've got plenty of time |
Well, that gives you the opportunity to find something useful to do. |
Why bother? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Back on topic...
If you are able to view this on Facebook, it might prove interesting and relevant from a scholarly historical perspective. https://www.facebook.com/notes/pat-harbison/on-the-demise-of-the-swing-era/10154969229992302/
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1844
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now that's a much better answer to what happened to the big bands. It just doesn't seem likely that musicians willingly took themselves out of the business. Getting bored, yes. Wanting to be more creative, yes. But not completely giving up the things that are proving so successful.
_________________
The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1844
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
I guess should clarify. Yes, individual musicians took themselves out of the business (Artie Shaw for example). But not the collective group of all swing musicians.
_________________
The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike Sailors wrote: | | Ok, I’ll try to open my mind. Any other advice for me? |
The title of this thread is: Why the Big Bands died.
Is this a legitimate question?
I suppose so if you compare the situation round the forties in which every musician with some name had bigband of his own with the situation now.
And it is of course a generalisation, there are still some big bands and there is still some public for.
Some people including me tried to give a possible answer on that question.
But obviously you do not agree with the OP's statement: big bands are not dead,they florish in NY and there is a public that like these bands.
That's ok, it's a little bit hijacking the thread for your own purpose but there is a certain connection. But what's bothering me is that you use my answer on the OP's question to tackle the question itself. But it is and was not my question. Maybe you see that different but I consider your way a little sloppy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LSOfanboy
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 347
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: |
The title of this thread is: Why the Big Bands died.
Is this a legitimate question?
I suppose so if you compare the situation round the forties in which every musician with some name had bigband of his own with the situation now.
And it is of course a generalisation, there are still some big bands and there is still some public for.
Some people including me tried to give a possible answer on that question.
But obviously you do not agree with the OP's statement: big bands are not dead,they florish in NY and there is a public that like these bands.
That's ok, it's a little bit hijacking the thread for your own purpose but there is a certain connection. But what's bothering me is that you use my answer on the OP's question to tackle the question itself. But it is and was not my question. Maybe you see that different but I consider your way a little sloppy. |
Hi,
I've been following this thread without commenting, but its reached a point where I feel someone (and others have already tried) needs to say enough is enough.
You evidently have different opinions to the other posters, that is perfectly legitimate, but this thread is just going round and round in entirely pointless circles.
For what it is worth, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I think your use of language (I know English is not your native tongue) is rather inflammatory and you might not be aware that it can aggravate people more than you intend.
All the best |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes this forum has an endless number of self-appointed moderators, I know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Make no mistake. Big bands are not extinct. There are big bands in every city of any size and there are big bands in almost every college, high school and middle school in America.
However, what is dead is the economic viability that big bands had in the Swing Era (1935-45). Side musicians in the dozens of successful big bands commanded salaries of $5,000-10,000 (approximately $4,000-8,000 Euros) a month in today's dollars. That certainly ain't happening these days.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: | | Ok, I’ll try to open my mind. Any other advice for me? |
The title of this thread is: Why the Big Bands died.
Is this a legitimate question?
I suppose so if you compare the situation round the forties in which every musician with some name had bigband of his own with the situation now.
And it is of course a generalisation, there are still some big bands and there is still some public for.
Some people including me tried to give a possible answer on that question.
But obviously you do not agree with the OP's statement: big bands are not dead,they florish in NY and there is a public that like these bands.
That's ok, it's a little bit hijacking the thread for your own purpose but there is a certain connection. But what's bothering me is that you use my answer on the OP's question to tackle the question itself. But it is and was not my question. Maybe you see that different but I consider your way a little sloppy. |
I posted because you said "no one likes big bands except for (as you say), old people". I provided a perspective based on reality and experience that countered that.
Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems related to the topic. But hey, you're definitely way smarter than me, and I definitely haven't been a musician for the entirety of my adult life so I definitely don't have the knowledge to weigh in on this topic, so that's my bad.
_________________
www.mikesailors.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6180
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is a very interesting and compelling explanation - thank you for the link! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adagiotrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 903
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: | | Ok, I’ll try to open my mind. Any other advice for me? |
The title of this thread is: Why the Big Bands died.
Is this a legitimate question?
I suppose so if you compare the situation round the forties in which every musician with some name had bigband of his own with the situation now.
And it is of course a generalisation, there are still some big bands and there is still some public for.
Some people including me tried to give a possible answer on that question.
But obviously you do not agree with the OP's statement: big bands are not dead,they florish in NY and there is a public that like these bands.
That's ok, it's a little bit hijacking the thread for your own purpose but there is a certain connection. But what's bothering me is that you use my answer on the OP's question to tackle the question itself. But it is and was not my question. Maybe you see that different but I consider your way a little sloppy. |
As someone who played with a name big band for over 20 years, from the mid 1980's until the early 2000's, I feel that I can speak to this issue. Just because someone offers a factual observation that runs counter to your original premise, doesn't necessarily mean that they are "hijacking the thread for their own purpose", as has been suggested. The author of this quote seems to feel that only positions that bolster the original premise are fair game.
Well, allow me to continue to "hijack" this thread. Big bands are certainly not as popular as they once were. However, I still play in at least four big bands of at least 16 pieces each on a regular basis in front of sizeable audiences. Either big bands are not yet dead, as the OP has suggested, or we need to re-define the term "ghost bands". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adagiotrumpet wrote: |
... to your original premise, ... |
???
Maybe it's necessary to explain the OP's original premisse to you and some others: it's about "why are they...?" not: "are they...?"
Has IMO something to do with a chopper view over the history of jazz. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adagiotrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 903
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | adagiotrumpet wrote: |
... to your original premise, ... |
???
Maybe it's necessary to explain the OP's original premisse to you and some others: it's about "why are they...?" not: "are they...?"
Has IMO something to do with a chopper view over the history of jazz. |
Actually, you are making my point for me. The OP has titled their topic "Why the Big Bands Died". The point is , they haven't. They may have lost popularity, but there still is a significant audience for this type of music as well as bands that can and will perform it. A more appropriate as well as more accurate title should have been something along the lines of why big bands have lost popularity or why big bands have fallen out of favor. So far, at least, despite the tile of this thread, big bands are not yet DOA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
