"Cheater" Mouthpiece

[Auraix]

In my high school marching band, everyone uses either a 3c or 1.5c mouthpiece. I however use a system blue, upon the first day of band camp, the clinician that was working with the trumpets said he was "glad to see no one was using a cheater mouthpiece" until he saw mine and winced.

That was 2 months ago, and even now I feel guilty that I use it, hence is why I used to switch to a 1.5c every now then, which I stopped doing because of different issues.

So I would like to know opinions on different mouthpiece. Is it wrong that I'm using a "cheater" mouthpiece while everyone uses a different kind?

And personally I would like to know if it is bad to develop my chops on a mouthpiece where it is easier to hit high notes as opposed to a mouthpiece where it takes more effort to hit a high note. Should I practice on a different mouthpiece for fundamentals or should I stick to what I prefer to use?

[Billy B]

There is no such thing as a cheater. IMO having average high school players use a 1.5C is something that would make me wince.

Bottom line; Is your sound acceptable?
_________________
Bill Bergren

[HERMOKIWI]

Stick with what works best for you and don't feel guilty about it.

The term "cheater" mouthpiece is a slang term for a mouthpiece with a small and shallow cup. The concept is that this type of mouthpiece automatically makes it easier to play in the high register because it gives the player a mechanical advantage to produce high notes. Thus, the concept that the player is "cheating" in that the player is producing high notes because of this mechanical advantage rather than because of a developed embouchure and proper technique.

It's all hogwash. Ease of playing high notes is primarily a function of a developed embouchure and proper technique. A certain mouthpiece makes it easier to play high notes only to the extent that the mouthpiece compliments your physiology, embouchure and technique to make that happen. Some players have great difficulty producing high notes on "cheater" mouthpieces and do much better on larger mouthpieces.

There are no shortcuts to developing high range. In particular, there are no magic mouthpieces that "automatically" give you high range. High range is developed with correct fundamentals and correct practice on equipment that compliments your physiology, embouchure and technique.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

[cheiden]

System Blue offers two different mouthpieces. One with a medium shallow cup and one with a medium deep v-cup. I'm seeing no additional information about cup ID or alpha angle. If the medium-shallow isn't so shallow that it's impractical for general playing then I wouldn't characterize it as a cheater.

Any piece characterized as medium deep v-cup is not likely anybody's idea of a cheater.

FWIW I also don't subscribe to the concept of a cheater, per se. I do however take issue when players play specialized gear, typically lead pieces, in situations where their resulting tone is not appropriate.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Richard III]

I'm guessing one of the other key elements is a more open throat on the mouthpiece to aid in getting more air into the horn. Definitely a plus when playing outside in a marching situation.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[dstdenis]

Does the mpc fit your chops? Can you get a good sound with it and blend well with the section? If yes, then keep using it.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[JVL]

Anyone playing a kind of 1 1/2C mpc for Hummel or Haydn, is using a cheater mpc. He should play these concerti with a kind of 6A4a

[Robert P]

[Sharkbaitboi]

Yeah you should definitely avoid the schilke 14a4a. It cheats too much because its so good. Wont stay loyal to you

[Dale Proctor]

I do think there is such a thing as a cheater mouthpiece. If you use a mouthpiece for a specific purpose (ease of playing in the upper register, for example) at the detriment of other aspects of trumpet playing (tone, lower range, etc.), then it's a cheater. If you can use a smaller mouthpiece to facilitate a sound you want and it gives you more endurance above the staff, but you still have a nice tone, good intonation, and low range with it too, then it's not a cheater.
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[oxleyk]

[Sharkbaitboi]

[ohnecael]

[zaferis]

You're getting the idea of the "cheater" verbage.. but IMO as much as I would direct you away from say a 14a4a, I would do the same for a 1.5C. Both are on the fringes of size, and in the case of the 14a4a, designed for very mature players that need a very specific thing. The 1.5C is large with a deepish cup-definitely for a mature embouchure striving for a big "orchestral" sound.

My analagy, using myself as an example, as a pretty good golfer, to get exactly the clubs that Tiger Woods played last week and expect them to make golf easier. Well made, well designed equipment that doesn't fit me at all. I might gain in some aspect(s) but overall would not improve my game and would probably make things worse in the short and/or long term.

My suggestion is to find something that fits your face in the mid-size range (Bach size comparison 7C-3C), has some level of comfort, maybe a touch shallower (C-D depth), that helps you produce a good vibrant trumpet sound, and controlable pitch throughout your range. This is where rim shape, cup shape, throat size and flare start affecting the "blow" and where notes slot.

On my list of mouthpieces to look at: Bach 3C, Yamaha 14B4, Curry 3M / 3C, Pickett 3C, Warburton 4MC / 4M, all exellent choices. There are a ton of mouthpiece makers.

The question then becomes, "What's it sound like?" Too shallow becomes edgy and crass and doesn't blend well, while too big/deep loses focus and projection.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[RussellDDixon]

So, using this logic any trumpet with less than a .470 bore is a "cheater" trumpet. We must ALL switch to a Schilke 24 or be labeled "cheaters."

I am going to continue to use what works for me personally and be labeled a "cheater."

You find what works for YOU as an individual. We do not all wear the same size shoes and we do not all use the same size gear. That simple.
_________________
Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece

[Sharkbaitboi]

Playing lead on a Bach 1.5C is easy. I know someone that does it on a 1.25C. The rim either fits your fave or it doesnt. If you need more grip just use sandpaper on the rim

[Betelgeuse215]

[Brad361]

As others have said, there’s no such thing as a cheater mpce., if there was, I would buy two of them.

That being said: if the guy winced because of how you sound, that’s one thing, if he did that based just on what he saw, that’s another matter.
THAT being said, I personally don’t feel that a developing player should be using an extreme size at EITHER end of the spectrum, not too small and shallow, OR large and deep. If this instructor is of the “bigger is better” mindset, that’s just ridiculous.

JUST as an example, something like a Bach 3C is probably appropriate, but no one here can specifically and accurately recommend a certain mouthpiece without hearing/seeing you play. And I realize you didn’t ask for a specific recommendation.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[Brad361]

[Sharkbaitboi]