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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9021
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | What always puzzles me with threads like this one is the method to handle all this information. My roughly counting gives about 32 different recommendations. My experience with threads like this is that another week will at least double this amount. (mostly these questions top off at 60 to 80 answers). And all recommendations seem to be reasonable and to the point.
What to do now? Play them all? (seriously and thoroughly). |
General recommendations aside, then . . . I play a Committee most of the time.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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The quintessential lead trumpet is the Calicchio 1s/2. It was designed for a lead sound and strong projection and is widely accepted as a superb horn in both categories.
The Benge 2X was designed to produce results similar to the Calicchio 1s/2.
The Callet Superchops is another horn with a reputation for a lead sound and strong projection.
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | What always puzzles me with threads like this one is the method to handle all this information. My roughly counting gives about 32 different recommendations. My experience with threads like this is that another week will at least double this amount. (mostly these questions top off at 60 to 80 answers). And all recommendations seem to be reasonable and to the point.
What to do now? Play them all? (seriously and thoroughly). |
General recommendations aside, then . . . I play a Committee most of the time. |
I personally rate advice from someone like Trent Austin and Tony Scodwell high since they have tons of experience playing and as owners of music shops have the chance to play many different instruments. Another group of people whose advice I respect are the pros who haven't been driven off the site.
Having been on this site for a long time I have identified people who pop up over and over recommending the horn they currently play as the do all and end all trumpet. I normally discount recommendations from these people.
One should also remember that the range of people on this site go from middle school age to octogenarians. Some people still in high school may be monster players, most not. The rest of us fall into the same categories, regardless of our age, and in some cases experience.
At the end of the day each of us needs to use our own filter to separate the kernels of good advice from the chaff. Remember that the advice you receive on the internet is worth every penny you pay for said advice.  |
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Turkle
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2450
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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As LittleRusty notes, there are about a dozen people on this forum that can actually play the braces off a horn, and about 5,000 posters that don't know which end to blow in.
Delano, you might get 60-80 answers, but if you hang around here for a while it'll be pretty obvious which 2-3 responses are worth reading.
Happy posting everyone!!!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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milanos
New Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2018
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by milanos on Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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burnhamd
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2016
Posts: 71
Location: Greenfield, TN.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Callet Jazz |
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I second Lee Adams, Callet Jazz or the Studio Artist. I absolutely love the Callet Jazz Gen II.
Contact Lee Adams
www.callet.com
Dan
_________________
Callet Jazz Gen. II www.callet.com
Getzen Eterna Bobby Herriot Model
MF Holton LT-302
MF Holton LT-306
MF Holton ST-307
Cheap Flugel
www.danburnham.com |
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | What always puzzles me with threads like this one is the method to handle all this information. My roughly counting gives about 32 different recommendations. My experience with threads like this is that another week will at least double this amount. (mostly these questions top off at 60 to 80 answers). And all recommendations seem to be reasonable and to the point.
What to do now? Play them all? (seriously and thoroughly). |
General recommendations aside, then . . . I play a Committee most of the time. |
I personally rate advice from someone like Trent Austin and Tony Scodwell high since they have tons of experience playing and as owners of music shops have the chance to play many different instruments. Another group of people whose advice I respect are the pros who haven't been driven off the site.
Having been on this site for a long time I have identified people who pop up over and over recommending the horn they currently play as the do all and end all trumpet. I normally discount recommendations from these people.
One should also remember that the range of people on this site go from middle school age to octogenarians. Some people still in high school may be monster players, most not. The rest of us fall into the same categories, regardless of our age, and in some cases experience.
At the end of the day each of us needs to use our own filter to separate the kernels of good advice from the chaff. Remember that the advice you receive on the internet is worth every penny you pay for said advice. |
I'd certainly add Tim Wendt and his 1601 to the list of players, teachers, and pros who have tried a lot of horns...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Herman rev2 wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | What always puzzles me with threads like this one is the method to handle all this information. My roughly counting gives about 32 different recommendations. My experience with threads like this is that another week will at least double this amount. (mostly these questions top off at 60 to 80 answers). And all recommendations seem to be reasonable and to the point.
What to do now? Play them all? (seriously and thoroughly). |
General recommendations aside, then . . . I play a Committee most of the time. |
I personally rate advice from someone like Trent Austin and Tony Scodwell high since they have tons of experience playing and as owners of music shops have the chance to play many different instruments. Another group of people whose advice I respect are the pros who haven't been driven off the site.
Having been on this site for a long time I have identified people who pop up over and over recommending the horn they currently play as the do all and end all trumpet. I normally discount recommendations from these people.
One should also remember that the range of people on this site go from middle school age to octogenarians. Some people still in high school may be monster players, most not. The rest of us fall into the same categories, regardless of our age, and in some cases experience.
At the end of the day each of us needs to use our own filter to separate the kernels of good advice from the chaff. Remember that the advice you receive on the internet is worth every penny you pay for said advice. |
I'd certainly add Tim Wendt and his 1601 to the list of players, teachers, and pros who have tried a lot of horns... |
+1
My list was certainly not intended to be exhaustive. |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Turkle wrote: | As LittleRusty notes, there are about a dozen people on this forum that can actually play the braces off a horn, and about 5,000 posters that don't know which end to blow in.
Delano, you might get 60-80 answers, but if you hang around here for a while it'll be pretty obvious which 2-3 responses are worth reading.
Happy posting everyone!!! |
I hang around here already quite some time and I know exactly what you mean but if I write what you did here, there will be a whole gang of old boys here, glued together, who start complaining and wailing and who want to hang me. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7011
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I may be one of turkle's 5000...
Anyway, there are a few trumpets I have in mind, but I really have no idea what to recommend, because I don't know how Bell's Palsy has affected you. I had an elderly friend who was fairly healthy, but could not really sustain a flow of air though his horn. I introduced him to Flip Oakes and he bought a couple of horns from him. Flip's flugelhorn was fine, but my friend couldn't get a decent sound out of a Wild Thing trumpet. He bought a Celebration, instead. But, he really sounded best on my Benge 5X.
I'm going to assume you might have similar difficulty sustaining a full column of airflow and recommend trying these horns. There are others, but these I've tried, myself. I'll put them in order:
Bach Commercial ML
Stomvi VRII
Adams A6 brass
Kanstul 1502
Then, I'd like to suggest that you look into using the pencil exercise (Pops McLaughlin) and pedal tones to develop resonance in your embouchure. Also, maybe see a vocal coach to make sure your breathing is in good shape. Take care to make sure the muscles you use for playing trumpet are the same you use for vocal production and you will get the most sound for the effort.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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DickieG64
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 114
Location: Weehawken, New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:53 am Post subject: |
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I have played the Scodwell Las Vegas for 15 years. These horns are great for projection, feedback and intonation. I never leave home without it.
_________________
Chicago Benge Large bore 1947
Monette B993
Taylor Flugelhorn
Kanstul -Charlie Davis pic prototype never produced
Conn 80A Cornet
Taylor Flugle Horn
Kanstul-Charlie Davis Prototype Piccolo-never produced
1946 Conn 80A cornet |
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2many5s
Regular Member
Joined: 28 May 2014
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:18 am Post subject: Commercial horns with easiest projection |
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| DickieG64 wrote: | | I have played the Scodwell Las Vegas for 15 years. These horns are great for projection, feedback and intonation. I never leave home without it. |
Tony has been around some of the very best in the business for years, I play on his Las Vegas as well in all commercial situations, his horn makes life easy for me. Try one if you get a chance! Plus he is kind enough to share treasured posts here on TH. |
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blasticore
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 3045
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
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So, just to play devil's advocate for a moment...
It does actually depend on you. If the horn feels too small and chokes you off, you're going to have a hard time projecting and playing loud for more than a little while. If it's too open, you're going to fall into it and get tired, and then projection won't matter much.
You'd need to balance whatever you're playing with a mouthpiece that works for both you and the instrument. There've been quite a few horns I thought I'd do great on, but never found a mouthpiece combination that made them a possibility.
A personal example: I played a Yamaha 8310Z for about 5 years. I used a number of mouthpieces on it in that time that worked progressively better, but I never got it to sing like I wanted. There wasn't anything wrong with the horn, but when I tried some others, I realized I just had an easier time in general, since I had to play more "irresponsibly" on a regular basis, and I just wasn't getting the volume of sound out of the Z that I wanted. I play on something similar now, with about the same bell flare, a ML bore, and a larger taper leadpipe. They're not paying me any money or giving me free horns, so for all intents and purposes, we can just pretend it's a garden hose with a funnel.
_________________
Chris King
http://www.cktrumpet.com
http://www.ckbrassworks.com |
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Pete
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| blasticore wrote: | So, just to play devil's advocate for a moment...
It does actually depend on you. If the horn feels too small and chokes you off, you're going to have a hard time projecting and playing loud for more than a little while. If it's too open, you're going to fall into it and get tired, and then projection won't matter much.
You'd need to balance whatever you're playing with a mouthpiece that works for both you and the instrument. There've been quite a few horns I thought I'd do great on, but never found a mouthpiece combination that made them a possibility.
A personal example: I played a Yamaha 8310Z for about 5 years. I used a number of mouthpieces on it in that time that worked progressively better, but I never got it to sing like I wanted. There wasn't anything wrong with the horn, but when I tried some others, I realized I just had an easier time in general, since I had to play more "irresponsibly" on a regular basis, and I just wasn't getting the volume of sound out of the Z that I wanted. I play on something similar now, with about the same bell flare, a ML bore, and a larger taper leadpipe. They're not paying me any money or giving me free horns, so for all intents and purposes, we can just pretend it's a garden hose with a funnel. |
Chris,
Although I am not one of the 2-3 accepted opinions implied earlier, I have to agree with you.
Pete |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Callet Jazz LT and Studio Artist Models |
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| Lee Adams wrote: | While the Callet "Jazz" is well known for responsiveness and projection.
The Callet "Jazz" Gen II introduced in 2017 has refinements that have further enhanced the response and resonance of this great horn. With various lead pipe venturi and main tuning slide options to suit a wide variety of player preferences!
The new Callet "Jazz" LT also intoduced in 2017 has a lighter gauge bell and lead/commercial guys are really liking them!
Last but not least the Studio Artist model and Studio Artist LT are very efficient horns to consider!
I have all models available for trial here in the Atlanta area. Lets get together!
Here are some guys diggin the Jazz LT and Studio Artist LT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBtm5uaePT8[b][/b
www.callet.com
"Horns that won't hold you back"
https://www.facebook.com/Calletcom-Custom-Trumpets-170821893321793/ |
I've been playing an older Callet Jazz for the last 5 months and really enjoying it. You are in Atlanta, it's a no-brainer to give thiem a try. |
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HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | The quintessential lead trumpet is the Calicchio 1s/2. It was designed for a lead sound and strong projection and is widely accepted as a superb horn in both categories.
The Benge 2X was designed to produce results similar to the Calicchio 1s/2.
The Callet Superchops is another horn with a reputation for a lead sound and strong projection. |
I own an example of all three of the above horns (although none of them are my main horn - I play an Adams A8 - my interest is in small group jazz).
I see that several people recommend the Callet Jazz. I own one of those as well. The Callet Jazz gets an excellent dispersed sound. It was designed to be a great all-around horn (which it is). In terms of projection, however, the Callet Jazz is not even close to being in the same league as the Calicchio 1s/2, Benge 2X or Callet Superchops. These latter three horns were not designed to be all-around horns. They were designed to be laser beams.
_________________
HERMOKIWI |
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LSOfanboy
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I am aware this is probably not the answer you want to hear, but an instrument is a relatively small part of the overall equation and, in my opinion, the whole premise of this thread is slightly typical of us trumpet players (I am as guilty as anyone, although experience has gradually softened my persistent longing to find the perfect equipment) forming this idea that somewhere out there is a trumpet that will drastically change and improve our playing experience, when realistically the difference is always disappointingly subtle.
I understand your thought process, you want to find a lighter and brighter trumpet with a sound that is quicker to 'break up' (by break up I mean move to sizzlingly brightness) as opposed to a trumpet which maintains a round sound even when pushed. And yes, this will improve your experience, by about 5% I would imagine.
If you have the cash to spare, then by all means go and buy a new trumpet, any of the suggestions are good. Really you need to find whatever suits you best- many brands produce 'commercially orientated' trumpets and everyone has a slightly different opinion on which is their favourite. Go and try some of the lightweight Yamahas (LA and Z models), Schilkes (B series probably best), Bach Commercial/Strads (lots of the UK commercial players are on these instruments now), Shires have some lovely lightweight instruments, or any of the others suggested above. Be aware though, its an individual thing and don't get too hung up on one poster telling you 'x instrument is by far the best' because, as has been pointed out, unless you know how that player sounds, plays and thinks, that information isn't very useful. Try the instruments and decide for yourself.
The larger issue here though is finding some ways to develop your resonance and efficiency through some new practice methods. This will make a far greater difference to your playing (as I say- I would suggest that 85% of your 'sound quality' comes from your production, efficiency and resonance, whilst the remaining 15% can be altered by equipment (both mouthpiece and trumpet)). If, and you are by no means obligated to take me up on this, you want any advice or ideas please feel free to private message me.
Hope this can add to the discussion.
All the best |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | What always puzzles me with threads like this one is the method to handle all this information. My roughly counting gives about 32 different recommendations. My experience with threads like this is that another week will at least double this amount. (mostly these questions top off at 60 to 80 answers). And all recommendations seem to be reasonable and to the point.
What to do now? Play them all? (seriously and thoroughly). |
General recommendations aside, then . . . I play a Committee most of the time. |
I personally rate advice from someone like Trent Austin and Tony Scodwell high since they have tons of experience playing and as owners of music shops have the chance to play many different instruments. Another group of people whose advice I respect are the pros who haven't been driven off the site.
Having been on this site for a long time I have identified people who pop up over and over recommending the horn they currently play as the do all and end all trumpet. I normally discount recommendations from these people.
One should also remember that the range of people on this site go from middle school age to octogenarians. Some people still in high school may be monster players, most not. The rest of us fall into the same categories, regardless of our age, and in some cases experience.
At the end of the day each of us needs to use our own filter to separate the kernels of good advice from the chaff. Remember that the advice you receive on the internet is worth every penny you pay for said advice. |
And there you have it. IMO, LittleRusty nailed it.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| LSOfanboy wrote: | Hi,
I am aware this is probably not the answer you want to hear, but an instrument is a relatively small part of the overall equation and, in my opinion, the whole premise of this thread is slightly typical of us trumpet players (I am as guilty as anyone, although experience has gradually softened my persistent longing to find the perfect equipment) forming this idea that somewhere out there is a trumpet that will drastically change and improve our playing experience, when realistically the difference is always disappointingly subtle.
I understand your thought process, you want to find a lighter and brighter trumpet with a sound that is quicker to 'break up' (by break up I mean move to sizzlingly brightness) as opposed to a trumpet which maintains a round sound even when pushed. And yes, this will improve your experience, by about 5% I would imagine.
If you have the cash to spare, then by all means go and buy a new trumpet, any of the suggestions are good. Really you need to find whatever suits you best- many brands produce 'commercially orientated' trumpets and everyone has a slightly different opinion on which is their favourite. Go and try some of the lightweight Yamahas (LA and Z models), Schilkes (B series probably best), Bach Commercial/Strads (lots of the UK commercial players are on these instruments now), Shires have some lovely lightweight instruments, or any of the others suggested above. Be aware though, its an individual thing and don't get too hung up on one poster telling you 'x instrument is by far the best' because, as has been pointed out, unless you know how that player sounds, plays and thinks, that information isn't very useful. Try the instruments and decide for yourself.
The larger issue here though is finding some ways to develop your resonance and efficiency through some new practice methods. This will make a far greater difference to your playing (as I say- I would suggest that 85% of your 'sound quality' comes from your production, efficiency and resonance, whilst the remaining 15% can be altered by equipment (both mouthpiece and trumpet)). If, and you are by no means obligated to take me up on this, you want any advice or ideas please feel free to private message me.
Hope this can add to the discussion.
All the best |
I think these are accurate observations/conclusions. There are no miracle trumpets and no miracle mouthpieces. A horn or mouthpiece can color/filter the sound to some extent but by and large the sound you get out of a horn or mouthpiece is the sound you put in. No horn or mouthpiece can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
You need to keep your expectations reasonable in terms of how much a horn or mouthpiece can affect your sound. No matter the horn or mouthpiece, at the end of the day it's still your own individual foundational sound coming out of them.
_________________
HERMOKIWI |
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Mikester
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 374
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Chip, Hope you have a full recovery!
Been a long time since we have chatted.
I have owned many horns. In 2007 I ended my super horn journey when I purchased a used Tulsa made 1s2. Sold several super horns and have played the 1s2 for a decade. I love the balance of the horn in my grip. The sparkle is as advertised. The blow is easy, which I like.
At ITG 2017 I played one note on a Gen II Callet Jazz Light with 0.346" ventury. I was sold. The response was instantaneous, which surprised me. I kept playing quiet middle Gs in amazement. So, I bought it.
Have received complements on tone clarity and intonation from leaders and members of big bands, orchestras, and parade bands I play in. Lead in all settings.
Here is a real time comparison: Last night I played the 1s2 in a large band acoustic environment. Played the same gig today with the Jazz LT. End of second set has 8va passages. Same sax players today spun around when the wall of sound from the Jazz hit them. Sound easily carrier out into the audience.
Chip, send me a PM if you would like to chat. Has been a while since we have met up. I have 2 slides for my Jazz LT. Lee can fit you with a Callet model and slide, I am positive. |
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