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Eb soprano mouthpieces


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BengeTooter
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Location: Corinth, TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Eb soprano mouthpieces Reply with quote

Being a relative newcomer to the world of soprano cornet, I'm curious about what mouthpieces are being widely used and if there are guidelines for choosing a piece that corresponds with your trumpet setup. With intonation on these horns being so touchy, knowing what "works" would be helpful.

I use a Bach 1 1/2B and 1 1/2FL on trumpet and flugel... what cornet mouthpiece should I use? Also, what is special about the Denis Wick S that is specifically designed for sopranos?

Chuck
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cinci-sop
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, welcome to Trumpet herald, second, welcome to the best chair in the band

You are going to get many many suggestions and advice to your question. It is one that has plaque man since the soprano cornet was made. There has been a thread or 2 about this subject. (do a search)
The Wicks S has a pretty small diameter in comparison to the Bach 1 1/2 and pretty deep. It has a great sound. It has a large throat, probably around a 20 or so but not sure, I have one like new that I tried and didn't much care for. I don't like the feel of the rim. Others use it and love it. If you interested in giving it a test drive PM me and let me know.
Schilke makes an 11Ax and a 14Ax that maybe of interest to you. The X backbore is pretty open. I find a larger backbore helps in the upper register. (I also have an 11Ax if interested) I have settled on the Warburton 6 series for my playing. I use the 6MD/8* backbore. Itís really a personal thing. There is also a guy named Ted Sparks that has designed a series of cornet pieces (Sparxs) that are really nice as well. He played sop in the Canadian Staff Band of The Salvation Army and has one made for the sop (the 4E). I had one for a brief time but the rim diameter was a bit too wide for my taste. I believe itís around the Bach 7 size. The possibilities are endless. Good luck with your search.

Kevin
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Eb soprano Reply with quote

Hello chuck,
Welcome to the realm. As much as I hate to say or admit to, a shallower piece for soprano is probably the ticket. You would think that you would want to stay within the idea of a vee shaped cup to keep a true cornet sound, but the range and facility of the soprano parts aren't forgiving enough. You really need to approach the part much like a pic part... Light, delicate with a lot of taste. Then there is also the challenge to play in tune with your supporting band mates. With Kevins' thoughts, you are going to have to find the piece that gives you the support to play the part without sacrificing the tone quality the music needs to have. Smaller, shallower with an opened backbore depending on what the intonation above the staff, is like, will probably do the trick. If you you play Warburton, you might have to get the S series cornet series to fit the leadpipe if you are playing a Schilke horn.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played Sop my last 2 years of Undergrad and for one of those, was kind of.. forced to use that Sparx 4E. I'm not going to say that Sparx Mps are bad N blablalblah.. But it definitely was not for me. I thought it was a bit too shallow for ME to achieve the sound the conductor wanted (and he still made me play on it)

I ended up using a Bach 7A, which felt much larger than a 7 rim and I thought the 4E also felt a bit larger than my Curry 5 rims. Either way, my go to Cornet piece now whether it's BBB, Sop or (hopefully soon!) C cornet is that wonderful 7A that I bought on a whim.

A little bit of experimentation won't hurt here, but try not to spend your own money. see if others have pieces you can borrow and if you're a brighter player like I am, again.. as much as I don't like to disagree, I don't think a shallower piece will be the ticket.

What horn are you on?
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BengeTooter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake... should have looked past the most recent topics. There are one or two (more like 20) threads on the subject. I'll do some reading. But, your note about the Wick S is my concern... it appears to be a smaller diameter cup (Bach 5 equiv.). Thanks for your recommendations, Kevin.

Eb cornet has been a rewarding experience. The horn will test and grow your abilities... certainly a different challenge. I look forward to learning from the experiences of other soprano players in the group.

Rgds,
Chuck
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BengeTooter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian, thanks for the advise. I'll have to try some shallower cups and, possibly, a tad smaller diameter. I can see how it might be helpful for the higher range parts written for this horn.

AJ, interesting you mentioned the Bach 7A, which is the mouthpiece that was supplied with the Besson Sovereign I've been playing (it belongs to the band). I have shyed away from it due to the difference in size to what I'm used to playing on trumpet and flugelhorn, but now, I'll have to give it a try... probably at today's rehearsal.

I am anticipating a near future purchase of my own horn, either a Schilke or Kanstul (still making up my mind... whilst also raising the money), so I don't want to invest in any new pieces quite yet. I also play a (band provided) Robb Stewart Eb soprano OTS cornet, a completely different bird which has a Bach standard flugel taper receiver... I'm using my 1 1/2FL in it.

Thanks, again, for your insights.
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1896 C.G. Conn Wonder (Eb cornet)
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regularly play on 5 rims, a Bach 5B and Curry 5s.. the Wick soprano piece is definitely not a 5 rim. unless the alpha angle or one of those other factors just makes it feel incredibly small to my lips.

Good luck! glad to hear you're using a good horn. The Xeno I was given to play was NOT as wonderful as I was told it would be. Though, I must say, it did play better after I dropped it and crushed the shepherds crook a bit Hand to God!
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5MV Bach is worth a shot. Same depth as a 5C but with a V shape which I think is a nicer sound.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confession time. I used a 5C, 3C and 1 1/4C Bachs at various times in my career a soprano cornet player. Then I had a Bach 5MV cup with a Monette 4 rim on it (more like a 3C). Monette have made Eb cornet mouthpieces to order which have an in between cup shape although I have never tried one.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Yamaha Eb Cornet came with a Yamaha 7D4d mouthpiece. It has a very deep V-cup but also a very small cup diameter that together makes the upper range very easy, but also very warm and cornet-mellow. Its rim is wider than the typical mouthpiece rim which makes it pretty comfortable for playing in the upper register a lot.

It's seems to me this is the best type of mouthpiece for Eb Cornet if you can play that small of a diameter. The best way to go with the Eb Soprano Cornet I think is to play a deep V-cup mouthpiece in as small of a diameter as you can reliably articulate notes on.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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cinci-sop
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Wickís is a little closer to a Bach 10 1/2 C rim.

There is both a Schilke and a Kanstul in the marketplace. $1400 for the Schilke and $1600 for the Kanstul. (great prices on both and I'm neither selling or know the seller so I have no vested interest in either) I haven't had the chance to play a Kanstul but have heard some pretty good things from 2 others I have talked to about them. For $1400 its pretty hard to go wrong with the Schilke.

Kevin
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using a Curry 1.5 BBC mouthpiece and I think it might work well on Soprano cornet. This is on Bb cornet but its in the soprano range and it gives some idea that it might work, intonation and support wise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOY7kIxNLvo
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cinci-sop
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
My Yamaha Eb Cornet came with a Yamaha 7D4d mouthpiece. It has a very deep V-cup but also a very small cup diameter that together makes the upper range very easy, but also very warm and cornet-mellow. Its rim is wider than the typical mouthpiece rim which makes it pretty comfortable for playing in the upper register a lot.

It's seems to me this is the best type of mouthpiece for Eb Cornet if you can play that small of a diameter. The best way to go with the Eb Soprano Cornet I think is to play a deep V-cup mouthpiece in as small of a diameter as you can reliably articulate notes on.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
https://www.purtle.com/how-i-became-a-student-of-claude-gordon-by-john-mohan


Hey John,
Didn't know you had a sop. I had a Yamaha 6610, I'm assuming it's the model you have, it came with the 7D4d. It's almost identical to the Wicks S.
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Flattergrub
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try here - http://www.sparxmusic.com/cnt_products-sparx-soprano-cornet-mouthpiece.shtml

then here - http://www.deniswick.com/all-products/item/7881/dw4881-s - same inner diameter as their # 5 mpc line
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silverstrad
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I play a Yamaha Xeno sop, and use a Hammond 4MV. Similar to what John says above, V-cup and comfortable rim.

Welcome to the club!
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BengeTooter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting experiences... thanks, much. Seems like most use small-medium diameter cups and a majority of those are either deep-v or very shallow. I have some experimenting to do to find the combination that works for me. This afternoon, I tried the Bach 7A instead of my 1 1/2B and liked the tone's brightness... and the notes above the staff came easier and stronger - and more in tune (not flat). So, the small, deep bowl of the 7A seems to work with the Sovereign. I need to also try a shallow cupped small diameter piece.

Curious, though, about how your mouthpieces differ for Eb and Bb playing. Are your rim/bowl diameters consistent in the two setups?

Kevin, in fact I am considering the two horns you described that are currently in the Marketplace, those along with another brand new (old stock) Kanstul I've located for $1800. Also as you mentioned, I'm leaning toward the Schilke... I've played and like the new Kanstul, but it would be hard to pass on the Schilke. I have been in contact with the seller and am hoping to sell another horn (my flugel) in time to get it before someone else does... wish me luck.
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silverstrad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In answer to your question about how mouthpiece selections vary from horn to horn, I try to keep the same rim while varying cup depth depending on the horn I am using.

For example:

Bb and C tpt: Hammond 4MLX
Eb Sop: Hammond 4MV (though I have used a 4MB and a 6MV in the past)
Piccolo: Hammond 4S
Bb cornet (american style): Hammond 4MB
Bb cornet (british style): Wick RW3B - off hand I'm not sure if the rim diameters are the same with this one, but it "feels" right

Hope this helps!
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sparxIV
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: sop mps Reply with quote

-Mouthpieces that will work well on Eb cornet:

Sparx 2C, 3C & 4C.....also the Sparx 4E

What kind of playing are you doing with your sop. ?

The bach 'A' cups are not really designed for Eb cornet work

Pm is for detailed info.

Cheers,
Ted
www.sparxmusic.com
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sparxIV
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: sop mps Reply with quote

sparxIV wrote:
-Mouthpieces that will work well on Eb cornet:

Sparx 2C, 3C & 4C.....also the Sparx 4E

What kind of playing are you doing with your sop. ?

The bach 'A' cups are not really designed for Eb cornet work

Pm me for detailed info.

Cheers,
Ted
www.sparxmusic.com

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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Designed for it or not, it seems to be something that works. I guess I wasn't aware there was unwritten law for what mouthpieces to use on certain horns. I knew a guy who used a Bach 2 on his Getzen Sop and he sounded like gold.

If anyone thinks I'm saying the Wick S or Sparx 4E are bad mouthpieces, you can turn around and leave. They are quality designs and do work.. just not for me.

I liked the articulation I got on the Sparx but being a brighter player, the sound was too brilliant for my ears and when I got into the upper register (think the pieces for Nabba the last two years.. lots of High concert E flats..) it was too bright and stuck out.

Keeping options open and experimenting is a good thing. It's how we find what works for us.
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