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Cornet Lyre suggestions


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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Cornet Lyre suggestions Reply with quote

Hi

Any suggestions please for a lyre for a short model cornet (with vertical lyre box), which will put the music a few inches behind the bell.

I have a more complicated remembrance day job this year, involving hymns before and music after the Last Post and Reveille, so that I can't play from memory like I did with just the Last Post and Reveille last year.

I'd ideally prefer to use a music stand, but the war memorial is in the church yard along the church wall, with no other buildings, a road in front and open fields opposite. Last year it was so windy, that the wind blew my stand up in the air and into the grave stones.

My brass band chairman kindly brought me a bell lyre to try. Possible, but the music isn't quite in focus. I've had a chat with my very good optician. She could give me an extra +0.25 over my distance prescription for close work, but she doesn't think I'm ready for it, since it should give me clear distance up to 3 metres, but I can barely see clearly beyond the length of my fairly short arms, meaning that I'd probably find it hard to see the vicar indicating when he wants me to play. The issue is no doubt owing to me having convergence insufficiency.

Other than using a bell lyre on my trumpet, does anyone please have any other suggestions.

Many thanks

Lou
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the opportunity to play Last Post and a couple other traditional selections, while stationed in Europe, not wanting to mess-up and not trusting my memory I had a fellow banndsman hold the music. Positioned myself near him without drawing too much attention to the assisant.

On one occassion I taped the music in question to the back of the band member that was standing infront of me. An "octavo" sized march held very nicely at the collar of his jacket.

And another time I wanted to have just a small reminder nearby, so copied the call at a reduced size, trimmed it, and taped it to my bell where I could see it if I needed.

Not loving the size, location and weight of lyre with a "flip folder".. I am fond of reducing the size of a march to roughly the size of a 3" x 5" card, putting that directly on the lyre. Just enough to remind me of the music and not nearly as heavy nor obtrusive.

good luck.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would scaling the music up to a larger size (with photocopier, or if you've got PC files even better) be an option?

I've known people refuse to "blow up" music because it'd be floppy - all you have to do is laminate it or stick it onto an old cereal box.
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Arbanator
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drug store over the counter reading glasses over my regular glasses enabled me to read music on a lyre. I looked a bit weird, but I could see the notes. I had to experiment with which strength worked best, but it was a cheap and effective solution.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a mono vision setup in my contacts. The left eye is for distance and the right for reading. This would work fine in your situation, except it takes about a week to adapt.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
I had the opportunity to play Last Post and a couple other traditional selections, while stationed in Europe, not wanting to mess-up and not trusting my memory I had a fellow banndsman hold the music. Positioned myself near him without drawing too much attention to the assisant.

On one occassion I taped the music in question to the back of the band member that was standing infront of me. An "octavo" sized march held very nicely at the collar of his jacket.

Hi zaferis

Good suggestions, thanks, but I will be on my own.


And another time I wanted to have just a small reminder nearby, so copied the call at a reduced size, trimmed it, and taped it to my bell where I could see it if I needed.

Another good idea, but it would not work for me on a short model cornet, as a bell lyre which puts the music at the end of the bell, is still a little close. I can see it, but it is just not quite in focus unless I put it a couple of inches behind the bell.

Not loving the size, location and weight of lyre with a "flip folder".. I am fond of reducing the size of a march to roughly the size of a 3" x 5" card, putting that directly on the lyre. Just enough to remind me of the music and not nearly as heavy nor obtrusive.

I fully appreciate the idea of reducing the weight, but I am looking to make it easier to see.

good luck.

Thanks very much.

Best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Would scaling the music up to a larger size (with photocopier, or if you've got PC files even better) be an option?

I've known people refuse to "blow up" music because it'd be floppy - all you have to do is laminate it or stick it onto an old cereal box.


Hi TKSop

A good suggestion, thanks very much. I can see the music with a bell lyre, but the A5 (luckily I haven't got the even smaller one) Salvation Army hymn book is just not quite in focus unless I put it a couple of inches behind my cornet bell. Light is also a factor. In the slight gloom of our band room, it was worse than in my hall at home, and I imagine that it is going to be fairly gloomy outside in November.

I'll try enlarging it slightly, and sticking on cardboard.

Thanks again

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
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- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arbanator wrote:
Drug store over the counter reading glasses over my regular glasses enabled me to read music on a lyre. I looked a bit weird, but I could see the notes. I had to experiment with which strength worked best, but it was a cheap and effective solution.


Hi Arbanator

Thanks very much. My optician suggested only +0.25 over my distance prescription. I have had a look on Amazon and they do sell +0.25 reading/computer glasses and also +0.50, which may allow me to use a lyre mounted in the lyre box.

Thanks again

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
I have a mono vision setup in my contacts. The left eye is for distance and the right for reading. This would work fine in your situation, except it takes about a week to adapt.


Hi LittleRusty

Thanks very much, but I have never worn contacts, as I have a very small astigmatism correction only prescription which can't really be accurately corrected with contacts. Well maybe my right eye could be, but my left eye prescription is too small for toric contacts.

Also, I don't think that I would get on with mono vision, as I felt unsafe driving at night with my old glasses, which were only one step stronger than my current ones in one eye. This one step too strong prescription in just my left eye (non dominant eye) made it harder to see where the road ended and bank started, when there were no white lines or curbs on poorly lit windy country roads, since we drive on the left in the UK. I can't imagine what driving with mono vision would be like. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a pair of glasses to wear over your contacts when driving, to compensate for having a reading prescription contact in your right eye?

Also, because my eyes don't work great together, I notice even the slightest difference between the distance vision of both my eyes, and probably drive my very good optician mad, as although she assures me that my visual acuity is the same in both eyes and she even thinks I read the distance chart more fluently with my left eye, I still think that my left eye looks slightly less in focus than my right, with best correction. If again you don't mind me asking, I know the idea with mono vision is for your brain to ignore the blurred vision from the other eye, but do you find this easy to do in practise?

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I've been chatting with my band colleagues, and I'm not the only one experiencing this issue. Admittedly the others are in their 60s whilst I am in my 40s, but I've been limited in how close I can focus since I was a child, and age is probably only a small factor in my case.

I rang up a couple of the big UK brass stores, thinking that they must have come across this issue before, but apparently not, which makes no sense to me, since at least three of my colleagues are finding the same issue, which is not surprising considering how close music ends up when put on a lyre mounted on to the lyre box of a short model cornet.

I'd get a pair of reading glasses were it not for the issue of me not having any range of vision with them. My optician says that an extra +0.25 should work up to a range of 3 metres, but it doesn't even extend to arms length with me, owing to me not really needing it yet, in her opinion. Hence I'm thinking of lyre options.

Thanks very much for your suggestions so far.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
I have a mono vision setup in my contacts. The left eye is for distance and the right for reading. This would work fine in your situation, except it takes about a week to adapt.


Hi LittleRusty

Thanks very much, but I have never worn contacts, as I have a very small astigmatism correction only prescription which can't really be accurately corrected with contacts. Well maybe my right eye could be, but my left eye prescription is too small for toric contacts.

Also, I don't think that I would get on with mono vision, as I felt unsafe driving at night with my old glasses, which were only one step stronger than my current ones in one eye. This one step too strong prescription in just my left eye (non dominant eye) made it harder to see where the road ended and bank started, when there were no white lines or curbs on poorly lit windy country roads, since we drive on the left in the UK. I can't imagine what driving with mono vision would be like. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a pair of glasses to wear over your contacts when driving, to compensate for having a reading prescription contact in your right eye?

Also, because my eyes don't work great together, I notice even the slightest difference between the distance vision of both my eyes, and probably drive my very good optician mad, as although she assures me that my visual acuity is the same in both eyes and she even thinks I read the distance chart more fluently with my left eye, I still think that my left eye looks slightly less in focus than my right, with best correction. If again you don't mind me asking, I know the idea with mono vision is for your brain to ignore the blurred vision from the other eye, but do you find this easy to do in practise?

All the best

Lou

Lou, I agree that mono vision is not the solution for this situation.

That said, mono vision can be done with glasses, although bifocals are used more commonly in glasses. Many times mono vision is used in laser corrective surgery.

As to the night vision issues, I have those issues at night and have driving glaases that compensate.

Finally, I always thought that I wouldn’t be able to tolerate mono vision, but after a week I have no issues. Switching between mono and normal also requires no adjustments.
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Arbanator
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re reading glasses, i understand the problem. i added an athletic strap so that i had an easier on-off-on time. I couldn't take stairs or see the director with them. But fine as long as I was standing still and the conductor was resigned to following my tempo.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get lyres with long "sticks" you can bend to suit, might work.

Otherwise I'd ask your local tech to put a longer stick on your brass lyre.

Thirdly, get one of those wood lyre holders that flute players use for marching?

Tom
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Tom said, buy a lyre with a long, straight stem. Take some measurements and bend it to fit. I did the same thing to get a small book of music to a distance I could focus on it. I call it my geriatric lyre...


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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Like Tom said, buy a lyre with a long, straight stem. Take some measurements and bend it to fit. I did the same thing to get a small book of music to a distance I could focus on it. I call it my geriatric lyre...


I used to work with a geriatric liar.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cornet Lyre suggestions Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Hi

Any suggestions please for a lyre for a short model cornet (with vertical lyre box), which will put the music a few inches behind the bell.

I have a more complicated remembrance day job this year, involving hymns before and music after the Last Post and Reveille, so that I can't play from memory like I did with just the Last Post and Reveille last year.

I'd ideally prefer to use a music stand, but the war memorial is in the church yard along the church wall, with no other buildings, a road in front and open fields opposite. Last year it was so windy, that the wind blew my stand up in the air and into the grave stones.

My brass band chairman kindly brought me a bell lyre to try. Possible, but the music isn't quite in focus. I've had a chat with my very good optician. She could give me an extra +0.25 over my distance prescription for close work, but she doesn't think I'm ready for it, since it should give me clear distance up to 3 metres, but I can barely see clearly beyond the length of my fairly short arms, meaning that I'd probably find it hard to see the vicar indicating when he wants me to play. The issue is no doubt owing to me having convergence insufficiency.

Other than using a bell lyre on my trumpet, does anyone please have any other suggestions.

Many thanks

Lou

Hi Lou

If I have this right, it is the closeness of the music causing you an issue? SO your optician says a stronger diopter will being the closer than desired into focus? But, you can 't see far enough away for other necessary tasks during this gig.

There are a myriad of solutions! You could try this:

-play it on a trumpet. Not a single person will notice. I have played these gigs on trumpet, cornet, bugle (once in a while) and not a single word has been made about the choice of instrument. Use the bell clamp lyre.
-You could get the stronger glasses with SMALL lenses so you can create a multi-focal panorama for your self. Glasses on music, normal sight for the vicar.
-You could also just get precise details of the service and go by aural cues.
-You could use a music stand with weights on it to keep it from moving about - or use your foot on it.
-You could get someone to rebend a stock lyre with a long rod into a Z type shape which puts it past your bell.
-You could just go and memorise a few hymns...

It's not a big deal, just one that needs to be considered out of the box. I honestly think a music stand, pegs and weights will do just fine.

cheers

Andy
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:

Lou, I agree that mono vision is not the solution for this situation.

Hi Little Rusty

That said, mono vision can be done with glasses, although bifocals are used more commonly in glasses. Many times mono vision is used in laser corrective surgery.

Thank you.

As to the night vision issues, I have those issues at night and have driving glaases that compensate.

Thank you for the clarification. I thought that mono vision may cause issues with night driving.

Finally, I always thought that I wouldn’t be able to tolerate mono vision, but after a week I have no issues. Switching between mono and normal also requires no adjustments.

Interesting, thanks, and I'm glad to hear that it is working for you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine that the reading addition value makes a difference, and that if someone who only has a very small reading addition was to try mono vision, that the reading eye wouldn't be blurred enough in the distance for the brain to ignore the image entirely.

Take care

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arbanator wrote:
Re reading glasses, i understand the problem. i added an athletic strap so that i had an easier on-off-on time. I couldn't take stairs or see the director with them. But fine as long as I was standing still and the conductor was resigned to following my tempo.


Hi Arbanator

Thanks very much. I like your last sentence about the conductor being resigned to follow your tempo lol.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VetPsychWars wrote:
You can get lyres with long "sticks" you can bend to suit, might work.

Otherwise I'd ask your local tech to put a longer stick on your brass lyre.

Hi Tom

Thanks very much. With reference to Dale's post after yours, I've ordered a generic music lyre with a longer stem. Hopefully the stem diameter will fit the lyre box on my cornet. If so, I'll have to find someone who can bend it for me.


Thirdly, get one of those wood lyre holders that flute players use for marching?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I know about wrist lyres, but they would point the wrong way when holding a cornet, and about adjustable stem length lyres that fit on to the head joint of a flute, but I wouldn't have thought that they would have fitted on to a cornet. Presumably you mean something else. Would you mind posting a picture of the type of lyre you mean? Many thanks.

Tom

Best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Like Tom said, buy a lyre with a long, straight stem. Take some measurements and bend it to fit. I did the same thing to get a small book of music to a distance I could focus on it. I call it my geriatric lyre...



Hi Dale

Thank you very much. What you picture is exactly what I was trying to describe over the phone to a music store employee, when I asked about getting a general purpose lyre with a long stem. I gave up when he suggested a cornet lyre with a bent stem, and didn't really seem to understand when I explained that mounting a lyre with an initial horizontal section on to a cornet with a vertical lyre box, would result in the music facing the floor.

I've ordered a lyre with the longest straight stem that I can find. Hopefully it will fit the lyre box on my cornet and will be long enough to bend it in the way that you have. How please did you bend it? I imagine that I am going to have to have someone do this for me, as I don't have a vice or many tools.

Thanks again.

Best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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