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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:29 am Post subject: Getzen Severinsen LB question |
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Hello guys , I want to confirm a info that read before some time , is true that the vintage eterna Severinsen LB models was the exactly the same with the ML horns accept that they had a a large bore .464 tuning slide.
If you have any other expiriance with those two models specialy about the feel and blow it will be very interest.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Fusion2002 Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 176 Location: Inver Grove Heights MN
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: |
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The LB comes with two tuning slides, a .458, and a .460 (the smaller slide has .458 engraved on the bottom of the slide, the .460 is blank) The horn itself has a .468 bore, measured at the 2nd valve slide. I have a 1968 LB horn, and measured with a digital caliper, and found my horn to match what I described above.
Some later models are .464 which was due to some technical reasons with buffing. There are a few threads on this site that discuss this in more detail.
I hope this helps! |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very useful info's, did you now if the ML horns comes with two slides also or is just for LB horns.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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JeffM729 Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 442 Location: Parrish, FL
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: |
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If I remember correctly the ML bore Severinsen only came with one slide, but if you contacted Getzen they would ship the larger slide at no extra charge back in 1972. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: |
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When I purchased a vintage LB Getzen Eterna Severinsen for my collection several years ago I was surprised that when I measured the 2nd valve slide it turned out to be .460. So, I spoke with the people at Getzen and they told me that the LB and ML were exactly the same horn except for the the tubing from the mouthpiece receiver to the lower tuning slide receiver where it enters the third valve casing. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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buglebliz New Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2015 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: |
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I use this horn as my primary horn and have both slides. To give you some perspective, I've tried doing a "blind swap" of the slides and really have been unable to distinguish any marginal difference in feel. _________________ Psalm 100 |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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buglebliz wrote: | I use this horn as my primary horn and have both slides. To give you some perspective, I've tried doing a "blind swap" of the slides and really have been unable to distinguish any marginal difference in feel. |
Do speak about the LB version right;
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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buglebliz New Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2015 Posts: 4
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Correct. LB. _________________ Psalm 100 |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | When I purchased a vintage LB Getzen Eterna Severinsen for my collection several years ago I was surprised that when I measured the 2nd valve slide it turned out to be .460. So, I spoke with the people at Getzen and they told me that the LB and ML were exactly the same horn except for the the tubing from the mouthpiece receiver to the lower tuning slide receiver where it enters the third valve casing. |
My English are not the best can you explain this , if the two horns are the same fro m mpc reciver until the end of tuning slide and the LB horn has .460 at the second slide where is the LB .
Sorry again but I dont get it.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | HERMOKIWI wrote: | When I purchased a vintage LB Getzen Eterna Severinsen for my collection several years ago I was surprised that when I measured the 2nd valve slide it turned out to be .460. So, I spoke with the people at Getzen and they told me that the LB and ML were exactly the same horn except for the the tubing from the mouthpiece receiver to the lower tuning slide receiver where it enters the third valve casing. |
My English are not the best can you explain this , if the two horns are the same fro m mpc reciver until the end of tuning slide and the LB horn has .460 at the second slide where is the LB .
Sorry again but I dont get it.
Regards |
You've misunderstood my post. The LB and ML are not the same from the mouthpiece receiver to the point the lower tuning slide receiver enters the third valve casing. Apparently Getzen identified the LB models solely on the basis of a larger diameter than the ML somewhere between the mouthpiece receiver and where the lower tuning slide receiver enters the third valve casing.
For reasons unknown Getzen deviated from the standard LB identification (a larger diameter at the second valve slide). I actually spoke to the people at Getzen about this. They simply described what I've described. They did not provide a reason why they did not follow the customary LB designation criteria. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Ok now is clear, thanks and sorry again for my English.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: |
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So the two horns are different only in leadpipe section as the tuning slide on LB horn is .460 and smaller right?
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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I'm more confused now than when this thread started.
One post said that the LB diameter at the second valve was .460 (i.e., the same as the ML). Another said it was .468, with a comment that some later ones may have been .464. Is it possible that Getzen varied the "LB" diameter at the second valve to that degree during the production years?
One post said that the LB models came with two tuning slides. I have seen numerous posts in the past stating that the ML models in the 1960s came with two tuning slides, but this thread is the first one I've seen that addressed that question for LB models. Did the LB and the ML models both come with two tuning slides in the 1960s?
Thanks,
Marc Speed |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | So the two horns are different only in leadpipe section as the tuning slide on LB horn is .460 and smaller right?
Regards |
No. I just measured the inside diameter of the tuning slide on my LB. It measures .468 at both ends. The ML model came with two tuning slides, one .460 and the other .458. The second valve slide on my LB measures .460, the same as the second valve slide measures on the ML model. I don't know whether there is a difference between the leadpipe of the ML and the leadpipe of the LB.
The serial number of my LB is SK33XXX. It has LB stamped above the serial number. It's my understanding that this places the manufacture of the horn around 1978-79. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Fusion2002 Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 176 Location: Inver Grove Heights MN
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just post pictures to clear this up...
And I'm actually surprised by my measurements of the non labeled tuning slide... The non labeled slide comes in at .468, which contradicts the envelope the second slide came in.
Also one more clarification, This horn originally had levers on it, but I had Jim Becker at Osmun swap them out for Amado's when I had the horn Blueprinted.
[url=https://ibb.co/nKVAW9]
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And the envalope that came in the case.
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time to make the measurements and take the pictures.
The biggest surprise I had from those posts was the difference in the diameter at the second valve - .468 on a 1960s horn and .460 on a 1970s horn.
One of my all time favorite trumpets was a 1960s Severinsen that my father bought for me, second hand, but not a scratch or dent on it. I was not sophisticated enough to look to see whether it was a LB or not, but it was the most open blowing trumpet I have ever played. I have no record of the serial number, and it left my hands in a trade many years ago. While I have an early '70s ML (which is presently on loan to my nephew), it is not as open as I remember my old one being. Of course, that could be a problem with my memory rather than the ML horn.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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For the record, Getzen LB models were originally .468", but were reduced to .464" sometime the mid '80s. The optional Severinsen Eterna slide was .458". Vintage (new old stock) Eterna .458" slides are still available from Allied Supply while they last. Anyone that is interested in purchasing one can contact me at Osmun Music by emailing jbecker@osmun.com
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:41 am Post subject: Getzen LB Eterna |
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As usual, James Becker is correct. Go to the bank on his knowledge. A little tid-bit I can add is during my years with Getzen the decision was made to make a LB version of the very popular Eterna model. Then, as is now, players seemed to feel the need of a larger bore trumpet. Getzen responded with their LB model at .468 which was the same O.D. tubing as the ML version with a thinner wall giving an I.D. of .468. That LB model was produced for a few years and feedback from pro players convinced them that .464 was a better way to go. Imagine that, players felt the original LB version was too big. Anyway, the .464 remained in the line-up. As for the tuning slides offered in various bore sizes, Doc himself never could accept the fact that "his" trumpets weren't .459 like his beloved Bachs, hence the tuning slides offered to reduce the bore. From the get go the Eterna was .460 and as Kiefer made their bells at that time, all were of a two piece design instead of a one piece which Severinsen preferred. It was about money and rumor has it there was a Bach bell on his personal trumpet. I should've tried to collect that $10,000 reward.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 654 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Getzen LB Eterna |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | Getzen responded with their LB model at .468 which was the same O.D. tubing as the ML version with a thinner wall giving an I.D. of .468. |
I was surprised that the tuning slide of my Getzen Eterna LB could slide veryyyyy smooth into my Getzen 700s ML!
Just the different wrap made it impossible to exchange the tuning slides _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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