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Lotus trumpet mouthpieces?


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nowave
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and I don't care about the mild profanity, but I do cringe a bit at the overly sales-y pitch.

It would be interesting to know how they differ in conception from Monette pieces.
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wiemelen
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece sound Reply with quote

nowave wrote:
amuk wrote:
Hate to say it, but I think the Yamaha sounds better to my ear than any of the Lotus pieces. BUT, if the Lotus were significantly easier to play, as Adam suggests, I'd go for one of his.


+1 on the sound of the Yamaha.

Really appreciate this kind of back-to-back sound test - with the understanding that it's just one data point with one particular player, horn, chop setup, familiarity with the equipment, etc. It's still interesting however.

When listening to the soundclip of Trumpetscout, I personally liked the Lotus L cup the most, maybe the LV when needing a more rounded/cornetty sound
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gottfried Reiche wrote:
jaysonr wrote:
I don’t see Wagner the same as using profanity deliberately on your website to sell trumpet mouthpieces. Sorry.


Look, I'm not condoning his use of profanity. I wouldn't do it. But to make THAT the reason you "would never buy one" is a little silly. Especially when it might be a fantastic mouthpiece.

There are a lot of mouthpiece and trumpet makers out there that are total d-bags, yet we still buy their equipment. I can't stand the guy who made the mouthpiece I'm currently playing on. I won't mention who it is, but he is loudly hyper-conservative on social media and has offended me on more than one occasion. But dang his mouthpiece is awesome.


I'm really digging a Monette B3S3 right now. It rescued me from my 'mouthpiece habit'. It just works, and I haven't tried anything else, or had a desire to since I got it. I'm sure I wouldn't align with Dave on many things. That doesn't bother me. His website is professional, and his little videos and stuff are always professional. I think I've heard a word or two 'slip' on them, but I believe they were slips, and he acted in a way which indicated he knew it wasn't professional and probably wished he hadn't said it.

I'll be honest man, even though I'm a pastor, hearing someone drop language in every-day life/conversation doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I'm always a little amused when people "straighten up" around me (esp. in my Southern U.S.A. context) when they find out that I am a pastor.

I get it. I've cussed before. Let me hit myself with a hammer or something. To be honest, in my opinion, for the most part, darn, heck, shoot, and crap are no different than the more common '4-letter' counterparts because words are just words, and it's the meaning and intention behind them that matters.

That being said, I still think dropping profanity on your website selling trumpet mouthpieces in an attempt (most-likely) to be 'edgy' is in bad taste.

Perhaps I stated my "this is the reason I'd never buy one" too strongly, but yeah, I'd have to come across someone who had one, who insists I try it, and have me suddenly turn into the next Bud Herseth and Wynton Marsalis combined on the spot before I'd help fund that company, personally.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was expecting far more profanity on there after reading this thread. The fervor over it seems to be a bit overblown in my opinion.

As far as the mouthpieces, there are annealed brass ones and nickel silver ones, apparently. Are the brass ones unplated? Just raw brass? Or are they both plated, just that the brass ones are well... brass and the nickel silver ones nickel with plating? This is not clear at all from looking at the site.
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the short audio clip provided:

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I don't for one second believe Rapa's 'miracle mouthpiece' claims, but I do have to remark that whoever made that audio clip has really not done them justice and it is a very unfair comparison to go on.

For a start, the player clearly has some production issues and does not have a particularly efficient and well-honed sound (which is pretty key when you're trying to differentiate equipment) and, slightly irritatingly, clearly hasn't read the brief about these LOTUS mouthpieces. Adam goes to great lengths to explain how (in a manner similar to Monette) the octaves are compressed (more so on the Plus than Standard models) and so the player can, and must, play the upper register in a slightly different manner (its up to the individual to decide whether that makes it easier or not) and the demonstrator has evidently not understood this. You can hear how the pitch is very sharp in the higher register on the LOTUS mouthpieces and, therefore, one can instantly tell that the player is not using the equipment as intended, and so the comparison is pretty much useless. In one of the videos Rapa describes his approach to 'centring' notes and, if you listen to this so-called 'comparison video' you can immediately hear how far off that player is.

Those who read my previous post on this thread will know that, although I am a huge huge admirer of Rapa's playing, I am entirely skeptical about his superlative mouthpiece claims. However, I do see that he has a concept with these products, and if the independent demonstrator (who, respectfully, sounds like a second rate player at the best of times) is not going to make any effort to adhere to those playing concepts then I would suggest that anyone serious about these products should ignore entirely that comparison video- its probably the only thing less useful for forming an opinion on the mouthpieces than Adam's hard-sell information videos.

All the best
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy - erudite and insightful. Nice informative post. Thanks.
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:

...I find something about this initial media release a bit distasteful. The unfortunate fact is that, without proper evidence and player endorsement (granted this can take some time), its simply the owner of a company making hyperbolic claims about his product and, slightly irritatingly, broadly dismissing all other products on the market.

I don't even need to try these mouthpieces to make this statement: mouthpieces are incredibly subjective and these new mouthpieces will appeal to some, and a great many others will buy one and end up leaving it in the cupboard. Having Adam relentlessly spouting his miracle claims throughout the video series does become a little tiresome, and I am sure the more experienced players on here will be rolling their eyes in frustration.


Finally, some sense. Plus, they're 200 Euros???
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sounds7
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just received the nickel silver standard 3L which is the equivalent of a Bach 3C. I also own quite a few Monette pieces including the 6S1 Prana. The first thing I noticed is the mouthpiece is considerably lighter than the Monette even though they have about the same mass. I personally find the Lotis piece to have the more comfortable rim to play on than this particular Monette piece. Both are fine pieces with a great sound but I find that with the Lotus piece the sound is not a spread and more focused. Also the lotus, while expensive is still less than a Prana Slap mouthpiece. The slotting and tuning between octaves appears to be about the same for both pieces. I also really dont find that much of a difference as far as range goes between the two I compared.That said this is the Standard, the Plus is the one with the lofty claims about extended range if you can play with less pressure.

I would like to know who makes these for Adam. I know its in Switzerland.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS asleep:

There is no such thing as “annealed brass” for making mouthpieces. All brass is soft until is “work hardened” . Work hardening means it has been bent or beaten into a different shape, like stretching over a Mandela, or bending into a curve etc. this never happens to a mouthpiece. Mouthpieces are machined, meaning that material is cut away until the desired shape. No hardening happens. Annealing is heat treating the work hardened brass which brings it back close to its original state of softness. This is done a few times while spinning a bell for instance. Tubing by the way is stretched and there more hard than something like a valve casing which is machined.

In any event describing a mouthpiece as annealed brass is just weird.

Nickel silver is a lighter material than “free machining brass alloy 360” which by the way contains lead. Nickel silver would def need plating because nickel is something lots of people are allergic to.

Never tried nickel as a mouthpiece material cuz it cuts weird.
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LarsHusum
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
BS asleep:

There is no such thing as “annealed brass” for making mouthpieces. All brass is soft until is “work hardened” . Work hardening means it has been bent or beaten into a different shape, like stretching over a Mandela, or bending into a curve etc. this never happens to a mouthpiece. Mouthpieces are machined, meaning that material is cut away until the desired shape. No hardening happens. Annealing is heat treating the work hardened brass which brings it back close to its original state of softness. This is done a few times while spinning a bell for instance. Tubing by the way is stretched and there more hard than something like a valve casing which is machined.

In any event describing a mouthpiece as annealed brass is just weird.

Nickel silver is a lighter material than “free machining brass alloy 360” which by the way contains lead. Nickel silver would def need plating because nickel is something lots of people are allergic to.

Never tried nickel as a mouthpiece material cuz it cuts weird.


As you mention, mouthpieces are not bent or stretched in the proces of making the actual mouthpiece.
But the brass used for mouthpieces have offen been stretched into the desired blocks used for cutting mouthpieces by the maker of the brass. That's why annealing mouthpieces makes sence.
Scott Laskey claims that Bach used to aneal his mouthpieces, and I've tried prototype annealed mouthpieces at the Yamaha Atelier Hamburg.
There is a noticeable difference in how a mouthpiece plays before and after an annealed process has been done to it.
Have you tried annealing your mouthpieces?
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not correct. Brass rod stock is dead soft and ready to machine. There is no stretching or hardening. That is why it’s called “free machining brass”.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did some checking with my vendor.

Free machining brass which is what everyone makes mouthpieces out of is also called “annealed brass” by some people. It’s dead soft, which is the whole point of free machining brass.

So annealed brass is the same thing that everyone uses and does not imply that after the machining process there is an annealing process.

Nothing special
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LarsHusum
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I've heard the that stretching story from several sources. Laskey and Yamaha. Maybe it depends on the supplier of brass?
Maybe it's a sales gimmick?
(BTW I like your website, very informative)
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
It's refreshing to see profanity used to sell instruments. It definitely helps. I wonder why other horn and mouthpiece makers don't use it more?

Ever hear of Ken Larson's GFT trumpet? The acronym isn't hard to decipher.
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sounds7
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own 2 now. A 3L Standard and a 3XSN Plus they are very similar in response and in tuning to their Monette counterparts. I find the rims to have less edge to them than the Monette, A tad bit more comfortable to play on. The throat is also a smaller diameter so more resistance than a B6s1. Its a nice piece though . Mouthpieces of this quality are usually in this price range regardless of the maker; Best Brass, Monette, Greg Black, Callet etc. The piece is definitely well machined and of great Swiss Quality. I am glad to have them.
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sam1750
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds7 wrote:
I own 2 now. A 3L Standard and a 3XSN Plus they are very similar in response and in tuning to their Monette counterparts. I find the rims to have less edge to them than the Monette, A tad bit more comfortable to play on. The throat is also a smaller diameter so more resistance than a B6s1. Its a nice piece though . Mouthpieces of this quality are usually in this price range regardless of the maker; Best Brass, Monette, Greg Black, Callet etc. The piece is definitely well machined and of great Swiss Quality. I am glad to have them.


In your opinion what are the most significant differences between a B6S1 and the Lotus 3L? in terms of sound, versatility and projection?
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markp
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a 3LV+.

I like it better than any mouthpiece I've tried for getting a dark, jazzy characteristic sound for small group jazz playing. I've had other mouthpieces that get that sound, but they are so big that they are not responsive or make the upper register difficult and uncomfortable. Or they sound too much like a flugelhorn.

This one feels like a smaller mouthpiece and is more nimble and lively. It sounds like a trumpet and I can play my entire upper register range. I can get that airy sound in an easy and controllable way, turning it on and off at will without contorting my embouchure or going out of tune.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is actually producing the mouthpieces? I've had my eye on a Taylor that's selling, but people seem to bag Taylor for their mouthpieces. Is Lotus a new jump for them or made by someone else?
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject: Lotus trumpet mouthpieces Reply with quote

I agree with LSOfanboy about some people using hyperbole in describing a new product or service. Being an avid sportsman I have heard hundreds of hunting, fishing commercials which describe in flowering terms the ease with which you can shoot, cast, reel, etc. by buying the prescribed product. Much of the improvement in playing we hope to gain by changing mpcs. is through our senses and so is a bit subjective. Good teachers can tell you your sound is more this way or that changing mpcs., but the player will decide. There are many good trumpets and mpcs. out there, many. Before falling into the trap of thinking you are like a golfer looking for that perfect driver or sand club. Try more practice or pick a couple mpc. that you like for the sound you produce with them and use them. Adam Rapa is one righteous player and I am sure the products he endorses and makes now are top notch. Putting 'hyperbole" aside I am reminded of a line from the movie "Grumpy Old Men." Walter Matthau looks at his neighbor and brags, "the green hornet has caught more fish than you ever dreamed of, Gustafson."
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
Regarding the short audio clip provided:

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I don't for one second believe Rapa's 'miracle mouthpiece' claims, but I do have to remark that whoever made that audio clip has really not done them justice and it is a very unfair comparison to go on.

They could use better recording production - sounds like they used the on-board mic of a camera or cell phone. Though all recordings are doomed to fall short of accurately reproducing the realities of what something sounds like in real life and are at best an approximation.
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