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Love my Curry, but my high C is flat!



 
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trumpetart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Love my Curry, but my high C is flat! Reply with quote

Hello mouthpiece gurus! I love my Curry 1.25BC for its comfort, sound, and overall awesomeness, but I have one big problem with it which is that the High C on my C trumpet plays too flat (and to a lesser extent the B and Bb as well). What can I do to keep as close to the 1.25BC as possible while sharpening that register?

I should mention that it is cut for sleeves, and have already experimented with all the Stomvi sleeves and found the best one for my use.
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jazz_trpt
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't sound like a mouthpiece design problem. How are the C# and D above high C?

And do you experience the same issue on a Bb trumpet?
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please provide model and leadpipe number on your C trumpet. It’s not uncommon for longer pipes like Bach 25A, 25S and 25R, or any reversed leadpipe for that matter to play low on high C. Enlarging the backbore and or reducing throat length can help mitigate those flat eighth partial notes.

Since few adjust throat length after boring to a larger number, say #24 or larger your high C is going to play flat. Reaming the transition from the throat to backbore with a shallow taper can restore the throat length allowing high C to be played up to pitch.

I hope this is helpful.
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Last edited by James Becker on Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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benlewis
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, enlarging the throat will compress the registers. Is your low register sharp as well?
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trumpetart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:
Please provide model and leadpipe number on your C trumpet. It’s not uncommon for longer pipes like Bach 25A, 25S and 25R, or any reversed leadpipe for that matter to play low on high C. Enlarging the backbore and or reducing throat length can help mitigate those flat eighth partial notes.

Since few adjust throat length after boring to a larger number, say #24 or larger your high C is going to play flat. Reaming the transition from the throat to backbore with a shallow taper can restore the throat length allowing high C to be played up to pitch.

I hope this is helpful.


Thanks for the info. It's a Chicago Bach, whatever the standard leadpipe is for that horn.
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trumpetart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benlewis wrote:
Yes, enlarging the throat will compress the registers. Is your low register sharp as well?


No, no problem with sharpness in the low register. So by compress the register, do you mean that enlarging the mouthpiece's throat will bring the low register up and the high register down? I don't want to bring the high register down!
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetart wrote:
benlewis wrote:
Yes, enlarging the throat will compress the registers. Is your low register sharp as well?


No, no problem with sharpness in the low register. So by compress the register, do you mean that enlarging the mouthpiece's throat will bring the low register up and the high register down? I don't want to bring the high register down!


Yes, that's what he means.

But to clarify, a longer throat compresses octaves. Opening the throat using a straight reamer or a drill bit also lengthens it. This is what causes the compression in such a case. This is also why Mr. Becker mentions that few correct for this when opening the throat and that it causes a flat upper register.

A more open backbore can help.

I used to use a 1BC and had a similar issue. I paired the top with a Bach 24 backbore, which is larger than the Curry #2 on the BC series, and no longer had that issue.

Just bear in mind that throat length, drill size, backbore shape and backbore volume all affect pitch. Because of how they are connected, it's nearly impossible to change one without affecting the others.
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah hah, glad to see this thread! I also had an issue with high C being a bit flat on my C trumpet (Schilke C5L with reverse leadpipe) when I switched to a Mt. Vernon mpc about 6 months ago. I’ve adjusted my blow slightly to get the pitch right, but it’s good to know the reason. The overall sound, response, and intonation are superior to my previous mpc, so it was quite worth it to make the switch.

To the OP: Have you found a solution to make the Curry mpc work, or do you think you’ll need to switch again? I quite enjoyed your CD clips, and will be ordering your album soon. By any chance have you considered using a “Fluffy” type of mpc for that repertoire? I do a lot of rep like that at weddings and other events with guitar and clarinet/flute/oboe, and using a very deep mpc seems to work very well in those settings.
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trompette229
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curry 1.25BC is designed with a #24 throat stock so doesn't have the issue of a lengthend throat from modification. The Bach Chicago C's aren't known for having a flat high C either. It's not an uncommon problem however. Tongue arch can have an effect on pitch especially in the upper end, I would guess there's a strong possibility this could be the culprit.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trompette229 wrote:
The Curry 1.25BC is designed with a #24 throat stock so doesn't have the issue of a lengthend throat from modification. The Bach Chicago C's aren't known for having a flat high C either. It's not an uncommon problem however. Tongue arch can have an effect on pitch especially in the upper end, I would guess there's a strong possibility this could be the culprit.


True. However, the BC series does have a section of cylindrical bore. Shortening this could have positive results.

As I mentioned, the stock Curry #2 bb ("Schmidt-style") is shaped differently (a bit less flared) than the more popular Bach 24. A smaller (tighter) backbore can have the effect of flattening the high register, and conversely, opening it up raise the upper partials. For example, I've played many incarnations of the Bach 1-1/2C, all of them gave me trouble with a stuffy, flat upper register. My friend sent one to Osmun to be opened up, 24 throat 24 backbore. Worked like dynamite: upper register not flat and very open. If the rim fit my face I would have purchased it.
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teongsfd
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the same problem with my Schagerl C trumpet for years, and only recently I managed to try a Warburton 12 backbore and that solved the intonation problem on my high Bs and Cs and above. I have had that backbore copied/adapted to some of my current pieces since and it has worked really well. Could be an idea to try those modular mouthpieces to see roughly which size/shape works best for you before modifying any pieces you like.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Love my Curry, but my high C is flat! Reply with quote

trumpetart wrote:
Hello mouthpiece gurus! I love my Curry 1.25BC for its comfort, sound, and overall awesomeness, but I have one big problem with it which is that the High C on my C trumpet plays too flat (and to a lesser extent the B and Bb as well). What can I do to keep as close to the 1.25BC as possible while sharpening that register?

I should mention that it is cut for sleeves, and have already experimented with all the Stomvi sleeves and found the best one for my use.


I've had the same problem w/Pickett 3C's, both 25 and 27 throats. And I have sleeves and know how to use them. It starts wanting to go flat at B, and gets worse as I approach high D.

I found less cup volume to be the answer, at least for me. Pickett's 3D has no pitch issue upstairs.
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trombahonker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience also points to the Curry BCs having flattness in the upper register. Bigger backbore does fix this - Parke Orcehstral or another large 24-style BB. Matt Frost's copy of the Parke Orchestral works well on the mouthpiece.
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Love my Curry, but my high C is flat! Reply with quote

trumpetart wrote:
Hello mouthpiece gurus! I love my Curry 1.25BC for its comfort, sound, and overall awesomeness, but I have one big problem with it which is that the High C on my C trumpet plays too flat (and to a lesser extent the B and Bb as well). What can I do to keep as close to the 1.25BC as possible while sharpening that register?

I should mention that it is cut for sleeves, and have already experimented with all the Stomvi sleeves and found the best one for my use.


How did you determine which sleeve was best for your use? I think many people use gap adjustments to change the feel and blow of the instrument. Unfortunately, that often leads to intonation issues. In my experience, adjusting the intonation/pitch scale with sleeves is the best way to choose the appropriate gap for a given mouthpiece on a given horn. Generally, the bigger and deeper a mouthpiece is, the larger the gap that is needed to play in tune efficiently.
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