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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7003 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: Update: Flip Oakes Instruments |
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I spent some time catching up on the phone with Flip Oakes this morning. For those of you who would be interested, I'll give the following update with permission from Flip:
Inventory -
There is one final Kanstul-built new Wild Thing Bb trumpet left. It has a copper bell and lacquer finish. It has the #43 lead pipe, which I believe is the most accessible and versatile version of the horn.
There are 3 or 4 Legend Bb trumpets in stock. I don't know the finishes available. Not much has been written about these, since they were just coming out about the time Kanstul stopped production. I did get the chance to play one, last October. I thought it was a terrific horn. I've said in the past that it reminded me of an Olds that Ed Mann let me play once from his collection. I don't know the model, but it was a good playing trumpet with a solid timbre and good intonation. It was a bit heavier than the typical Kanstul model and the Legend is all of those things, too.
What needs to be emphasized is that a long-time Flip Oakes friend and professional classical & jazz Yamaha trumpet artist exclaimed after playing the Legend that he felt up and coming students should be playing this horn rather than the Bachs or Yamahas that so many choose. Again, these Legends are the last ones built by Kanstul.
The Fusion possibility -
Work continues to bring Flip Oakes quality to market at a lower price point than the traditional Wild Thing line. These instruments are not stencil horns. They are Flip Oakes' designs built off-shore. Each instrument will be detailed by Flip with his Total Enhancement before shipping to the customer, just as he did with the Kanstul-built horns. He expects the first shipment to arrive within the month.
Sample instruments have been very promising, but are not the actual designs he will market. Above, I say "possibility" because Flip will only market instruments that live up to the reputation he has built over the past 25 years. If these instruments do that, he will add them to his line-up.
Is there a BAC Future?
Talks have been periodically ongoing, which I think is positive. Like many of us, Flip does not know Mike Corrigan and so has no relationship built up through years of interaction. Still, Flip seems to appreciate Mike's enthusiasm, but recognizes the immense challenge BAC faces in trying to integrate Kanstul's past business into their future.
Will there be BAC-built Wild Thing horns? I think everyone involved hopes there will be, someday. The most recent word is that Corrigan would be willing to build Bb trumpets and flugelhorn only. I hope that changes so that the entire line can be brought to market again. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update, Brian (and Flip). Hopefully this all gets worked out soon. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I hope BAC starts building Inspirations. What an incredible horn! _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 641
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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INTJ wrote: | I hope BAC starts building Inspirations. What an incredible horn! |
It would be great to see a Wild Thing on a Bauerfiend block like the BACB horn! |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Brian, for the update. I certainly hope for the best for Flip, as he is a class act and his Wild Things are/were awesome. I still own 2, a cornet and a trumpet, and am glad I got them while I could. My collection is beginning to appreciate, methinks
Of course they are both terrific players. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7003 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Rather than start a whole new thread, I thought I'd use this existing Update thread to inform those who may not follow him on FB that Flip underwent a successful double-bypass heart surgery yesterday. According to his wife, Joyce, he is resting in ICU and will be in hospital for a week and then in rehab for another week. It will be a month before doctors allow him to resume playing trumpet. This ordeal went as planned, unlike the angioplasty procedure where we nearly lost him a few years ago.
On the horn front: As of this past Thursday, Flip had not received the first shipment of Fusion horns. I have no further details on that, because Flip was playing his weekly gig in Beverly Hills, at the time I texted him. His answer was short.
You can follow Flip on FB and wish him well through his personal or Wild Thing pages. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Great news, thanks Brian. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for filling us in, Brian. Will add him to our prayers for speedy recovery.
A _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I too wish Flip a speedy recovery! He has had a significant impact on my trumpet playing life. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 972
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad to hear that Flip had this surgery done. It will add many years to his life. |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1504 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Brian, for being such a good friend to our friend Flip. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the information Brian.
Best wishes to Flip for a speedy and complete recovery!
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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DJtpt31 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2015 Posts: 308 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone tried the Fusion "Champ" Flugelhorn by Flip Oakes? Where are they ultimately being sourced... forgive me if this is too forward. _________________ "You need F-15's..." Joe Biden |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7003 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:54 am Post subject: |
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DJtpt31 wrote: | Has anyone tried the Fusion "Champ" Flugelhorn by Flip Oakes? Where are they ultimately being sourced... forgive me if this is too forward. |
I am planning to visit Flip's shop the first part of December and hope to sample all of his new Fusion line.
What I do know about the Champ is that Flip really likes it! Given that he was instrumental (yes, I intended that pun) in designing the 1525, 925, Burbank and Wild Thing flugelhorn models, his response to the Champ was a nice surprise. The Bb trumpets got "something like...," or "especially at their price point...," responses, but the Champ holds its own against even the WT flugelhorn, apparently. It's different, more diffused, Flip tells me, but very responsive and flexible to play.
As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 972
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. |
I have to say that Flip's new "Champ" flugelhorn worries me a bit. Not that I think it will be a bad horn, but it seems that nearly the same flugelhorn (with traditional water keys instead of amados, and without a black plastic cover over the trigger paddle) can be purchased on eBay direct from China for less than $300:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Bb-Gold-Flugelhorn-Trigger-Flugel-Horn-With-case-6-bell/163305935021
Maybe upcharging over $1000 per horn is worth the valve alignment and "blueprinting" that Flip does, but with no warranties, refunds or exchanges, it seems like an unlikely proposal to me. |
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DJtpt31 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2015 Posts: 308 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | DJtpt31 wrote: | Has anyone tried the Fusion "Champ" Flugelhorn by Flip Oakes? Where are they ultimately being sourced... forgive me if this is too forward. |
I am planning to visit Flip's shop the first part of December and hope to sample all of his new Fusion line.
What I do know about the Champ is that Flip really likes it! Given that he was instrumental (yes, I intended that pun) in designing the 1525, 925, Burbank and Wild Thing flugelhorn models, his response to the Champ was a nice surprise. The Bb trumpets got "something like...," or "especially at their price point...," responses, but the Champ holds its own against even the WT flugelhorn, apparently. It's different, more diffused, Flip tells me, but very responsive and flexible to play.
As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. |
Thanks for responding! There isn't a lot of information on the fusion line, rightfully so, so I thought to ask and see what others think or have to say about them.
It looks like a really nice horn, especially at that price point. _________________ "You need F-15's..." Joe Biden |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Liberty Lips wrote: | shofarguy wrote: | As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. |
I have to say that Flip's new "Champ" flugelhorn worries me a bit. Not that I think it will be a bad horn, but it seems that nearly the same flugelhorn (with traditional water keys instead of amados, and without a black plastic cover over the trigger paddle) can be purchased on eBay direct from China for less than $300:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Bb-Gold-Flugelhorn-Trigger-Flugel-Horn-With-case-6-bell/163305935021
Maybe upcharging over $1000 per horn is worth the valve alignment and "blueprinting" that Flip does, but with no warranties, refunds or exchanges, it seems like an unlikely proposal to me. |
In the past the list of design changes from "stock" Kanstul horns has been fairly extensive. I'd guess the same is true here but we'll have to wait for further info. I have a long history with Flip so am biased but am betting is not a $300 horn with Flip's logo on it. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7003 Location: AZ
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Liberty Lips wrote: | shofarguy wrote: | As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. |
I have to say that Flip's new "Champ" flugelhorn worries me a bit. Not that I think it will be a bad horn, but it seems that nearly the same flugelhorn (with traditional water keys instead of amados, and without a black plastic cover over the trigger paddle) can be purchased on eBay direct from China for less than $300:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Bb-Gold-Flugelhorn-Trigger-Flugel-Horn-With-case-6-bell/163305935021
Maybe upcharging over $1000 per horn is worth the valve alignment and "blueprinting" that Flip does, but with no warranties, refunds or exchanges, it seems like an unlikely proposal to me. |
So, I found out a couple of things about the Fusion horns when I visited Flip this past weekend.
The most interesting thing I learned, which I'd never read about before, is that it is possible to choose individual premium builders - the actual artisans - to build the horns you're buying. Apparently, there are two builders at this factory that are higher-level craftsman. If you pay a premium to have them build your order, you get a better horn. Flip pays for these guys to produce the Fusion line.
Secondly, Flip has not had to do ANY detailing on these horns. He checks them inside and out, just like he did his Kanstul horns, but says even the valve alignments are good to go right out of the box. Let that sink in.
Flip learned what he knows about horn design from years of instrument repair and experimentation. His reputation for producing world class designs comes from this experience, which is far deeper and broader than what most of us realize. For him to be surprised at the quality of these Fusion horns is impressive.
I had a good amount of time to play all three models this past weekend. I'm going to write an article about them in the near future, so that it can be posted here and on FB, etc. What I will say is that the Champ stood shoulder to shoulder with my WT in playability and sound quality. It has good ergonomics and the valves and slides all work really well. I'm not trading my WT for one, but I would be proud to own a Fusion Champ, if I were looking to buy a new flugelhorn.
I realize this reads like just so much hype. It's clear Flip is my friend and I want him to succeed. In the past he has asked me to change what I have written, if he thinks it's not accurate. Let's see if I have to make corrections. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | Liberty Lips wrote: | shofarguy wrote: | As far as the manufacturer question goes, Flip states that it is an "offshore Asian" builder. That's all we get from him for now. |
I have to say that Flip's new "Champ" flugelhorn worries me a bit. Not that I think it will be a bad horn, but it seems that nearly the same flugelhorn (with traditional water keys instead of amados, and without a black plastic cover over the trigger paddle) can be purchased on eBay direct from China for less than $300:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Bb-Gold-Flugelhorn-Trigger-Flugel-Horn-With-case-6-bell/163305935021
Maybe upcharging over $1000 per horn is worth the valve alignment and "blueprinting" that Flip does, but with no warranties, refunds or exchanges, it seems like an unlikely proposal to me. |
So, I found out a couple of things about the Fusion horns when I visited Flip this past weekend.
The most interesting thing I learned, which I'd never read about before, is that it is possible to choose individual premium builders - the actual artisans - to build the horns you're buying. Apparently, there are two builders at this factory that are higher-level craftsman. If you pay a premium to have them build your order, you get a better horn. Flip pays for these guys to produce the Fusion line.
Secondly, Flip has not had to do ANY detailing on these horns. He checks them inside and out, just like he did his Kanstul horns, but says even the valve alignments are good to go right out of the box. Let that sink in.
Flip learned what he knows about horn design from years of instrument repair and experimentation. His reputation for producing world class designs comes from this experience, which is far deeper and broader than what most of us realize. For him to be surprised at the quality of these Fusion horns is impressive.
I had a good amount of time to play all three models this past weekend. I'm going to write an article about them in the near future, so that it can be posted here and on FB, etc. What I will say is that the Champ stood shoulder to shoulder with my WT in playability and sound quality. It has good ergonomics and the valves and slides all work really well. I'm not trading my WT for one, but I would be proud to own a Fusion Champ, if I were looking to buy a new flugelhorn.
I realize this reads like just so much hype. It's clear Flip is my friend and I want him to succeed. In the past he has asked me to change what I have written, if he thinks it's not accurate. Let's see if I have to make corrections. |
Thanks for posting that Brian.
I think anyone who knows Flip hopes that this new line is a great success, and as Don said above, I also would very seriously doubt that Flip would put his name and reputation on anything that was not up to his standards. I also believe that while China had become synonymous with poor quality instruments, and there are still plenty that are, that is slowly changing. It reminds me of Yamaha’s progress from the 60’s to present day. Plus, “Asia” includes Taiwan, and Carol Brass in particular makes some great horns.
Time will tell, for now I’m hoping this line becomes very successful, I also hope that eventually the original Wild Thing design will again be available, whether from BAC or elsewhere. But hey, if not, I guess that increases the value of my WT!😉
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3619 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
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This is interesting, thank you, Brian for the posts. China will be catching up, it's only a matter of time. That Mr. Oakes has made contact to the point of figuring out who the best guys (or gals!) are on the line, making the horns, is significant. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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