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kiwi&strit New Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:02 am Post subject: Advice appreciated on 'SML Alliance' trumpet |
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Greetings!
This is my first post here, so please let me briefly introduce myself. I play, teach and repair saxophones for a living.
My 7yo son shows great interest and talent in playing the trumpet and I am on the lookout for a horn he could start handling and practising before actualyy starting lessons in coming spring.
So, I have the opportunity to buy this SML Alliance trumpet, of which the seller claims is a Besson, but I have read could be built by Aubertin.
I'm going to drive over and check it out tomorrow. Can you see any obvious faults in the pictures? Is there anything else I'd have to watch out for specifically? Any possibility it could be high pitch?
Does anyone have any experience playing one of these?
https://imgur.com/SpOoWWH
https://imgur.com/D2QyAS1
https://imgur.com/xIYk8Pm
https://imgur.com/jRkqPn1
Thanks in advance! |
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Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 721 Location: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:49 am Post subject: Advice |
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I'm a hobby trumpet player, so my thoughts may not be worth too much. With that in mind-
For a 7 year old, a cornet may be easier to physically handle.
Used Student Bach and Yamaha trumpets are plentiful and inexpensive, and are generally well made.
Having never heard of SML Alliance or Aubertin, I'd be reluctant to buy one.
No doubt others will have conflicting opinions. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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bunny Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 229
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: |
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This is an older french trumpet. Valve compression issues could be present. Advice above is great- consider a cornet from a standard maker. That being said, this is an interesting instrument that might be a player. |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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The finger hook is totally Selmer. I never met a bad Selmer trumpet, but for a beginner I think it's a bad choice. Other folks are suggesting a cornet, which might be easier to handle for a 7-year old. This is just on the cusp of a good beginner age. 4th grade is the usual starting point that I have seen in the US, and is when I started in 1955.
Anyway, a good beginner horn is the Yamaha 2xx(x) series. They have the rings for moving the 1st and 3rd valve slides while playing which is a skill which needs to be learned right from the beginning or very early on. Either cornet or trumpet should have this. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: |
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If this is a vintage instrument as others have said then I'd advise caution. I wouldn't consider this a good option for a young player starting out without first have the horn inspected and played by trumpet player good enough to be able to discern that the horn is in good playing condition and that has a blow appropriate for a youngster.
I'm with the other poster in believing that a student model Yamaha or Bach (trumpet or cornet) may be a safer choice. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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scottfsmith Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 472 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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SML trumpets were all contract made, Aubertin made the earlier ones; this one is a bit later (late 1940's?) but my impression is probably still made by Aubertin. Aubertin also did much of the later French Besson production so that could be why the seller said Besson. Aubertin was one of the top trumpet makers of the 20th century and horns with the Aubertin name on them are collectibles today; SML horns less but probably playing just as good.
The trumpet is too late to be high pitch, it should be A440; but it could be a C. I can't tell for certain from the pictures but its probably a Bb.
I have an SML, its an excellent trumpet, as good as any trumpet made in this period. Assuming all works it would be perfectly fine for a starter horn, but you probably would need to take it to a tech to be sure the seal is good etc. _________________ Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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kiwi&strit New Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your answers! I understand weight and posture are important (although my son is tall, as I am), so this made me think of letting him start on cornet. Some trumpet teacher even advised a plastic trumpet...
In the mean time, I have also learned that there is a lot less interest in vintage horns from trumpeters than from sax players.
Nevertheless, I might still go buy the SML (asking price around 100 euro), have it set up properly and save it for later...
Now I'm off to go investigate what "valve compression issues" might be |
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Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 721 Location: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Valve Compression |
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kiwi&strit wrote: | Now I'm off to go investigate what "valve compression issues" might be |
Worn valves can be a deal breaker- a valve overhaul at Osmun Music (one of very few folks I trust to work on my trumpets) was $600 last time I had it done.
Very few trumpet plumbers have a leak down tester to quantify valve tightness or lack thereof. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3619 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like a Cousenon. SML (Strasser Marigaux Lemaire) was a saxophone maker. I've never seen a brass instrument they made. Could be a good horn, don't know. Cousenon was the low-end French maker. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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scottfsmith Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 472 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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SML made various instruments although they were most well-known for saxophones. They also made oboes, flutes, trumpets, etc. Here is some information from Brass Bulletin #59:
Quote: | In the thirties a group of makers continued Besson production under the name of SML (Strasser-Marigaux-Lemaire), the Aubertins (father and son) not only making the valves but also making the bells and doing the final assembly. The people who played these trumpets appreciated the (rediscovered) quality and finish and lost no time in finding out that the real makers were the Aubertins.
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My impression from readings is the Aubertin factory made SML trumpets up through the late 60's. Maurice Andre played an Aubertin, they were top of the line professional trumpet makers. They had zero marketing so never became popular. SML did some marketing but nothing like that Selmer was doing. The total number of SML trumpets is small which is probably why you never ran into them. I think 6563 is the biggest serial number I have ever seen. I have an SML from about 1938 and its a great trumpet. _________________ Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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