I recently bought the sterling silver 41mm model. I had the vice president of Warburton listening. I tried the Brass and silver plated, but I had to have the silver. This was at FMEA convention in Tampa and I'd promosed my wife that I wouldn't come home with a new trumpet, so I spent a few C's on an add-on. I love it and I'm not looking back.
Have listeners also noticed a change / improvement in the sound quality?...
Yes, I had two professional musicians listening to me in a quiet and very large, open room. I was not wanting the 33mm 24K solid gold model to be positive at all, because I didn't want to be tempted to spend that kind of money on a sound attachment. I had already tried some lower end models over two years before, but I did not have anyone listening out front. This time I did. The change was notable...to all three of us. I just wish the company had a clasp, instead of the hairband attachment, because I think the latter looks cheap, cheap, cheap. (No offense to lefreQue–I realize you have to market the device with a universal way of attaching it in order to avoid tons of R&D and significant added cost to design various attachment methods.) To buy one would be a serious investment for sure. Oh, and I certainly understand why people would doubt any kind of validation from others' experience, but I can't deny what I experienced.
Ideally you would want a multiple-take double-blind experiment with additional similarly shaped trinkets included - e.g., made from cast iron, wood, plastic, pot metal, aluminum etc. as well as no-trinket setup. This can be a lot of work to listen to - instead, compare the spectrograms and choose those with most promising features. You would have someone else attach the trinket to the trumpet and choose the order of trinkets; play without seeing the setup.
Have listeners also noticed a change / improvement in the sound quality?...
Yes, I had two professional musicians listening to me in a quiet and very large, open room. I was not wanting the 33mm 24K solid gold model to be positive at all, because I didn't want to be tempted to spend that kind of money on a sound attachment. I had already tried some lower end models over two years before, but I did not have anyone listening out front. This time I did. The change was notable...to all three of us. I just wish the company had a clasp, instead of the hairband attachment, because I think the latter looks cheap, cheap, cheap. (No offense to lefreQue–I realize you have to market the device with a universal way of attaching it in order to avoid tons of R&D and significant added cost to design various attachment methods.) To buy one would be a serious investment for sure. Oh, and I certainly understand why people would doubt any kind of validation from others' experience, but I can't deny what I experienced.
Ideally you would want a multiple-take double-blind experiment with additional similarly shaped trinkets included - e.g., made from cast iron, wood, plastic, pot metal, aluminum etc. as well as no-trinket setup. This can be a lot of work to listen to - instead, compare the spectrograms and choose those with most promising features. You would have someone else attach the trinket to the trumpet and choose the order of trinkets; play without seeing the setup.
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2160 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:33 am Post subject:
Quote:
If you can, since you’ve tried this device and I haven’t, try the lead tape test.
Sounds like a good idea. There's a chance I have some lead tape lying around from my tennis playing days. Now that I've actually tried LeFreque and gotten positive results, I'm motivated to try the lead tape test.
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2160 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:37 am Post subject:
Quote:
Ideally you would want a multiple-take double-blind experiment with additional similarly shaped trinkets included - e.g., made from cast iron, wood, plastic, pot metal, aluminum etc. as well as no-trinket setup. This can be a lot of work to listen to - instead, compare the spectrograms and choose those with most promising features. You would have someone else attach the trinket to the trumpet and choose the order of trinkets; play without seeing the setup.
Is that what you do when you go to try a new mouthpiece?
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:53 am Post subject:
Science calls for repeatability of results. Until there have been several double-blind tests confirming the value of this device, I will remain very skeptical.
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:57 am Post subject:
Jerry wrote:
Quote:
If you can, since you’ve tried this device and I haven’t, try the lead tape test.
Sounds like a good idea. There's a chance I have some lead tape lying around from my tennis playing days. Now that I've actually tried LeFreque and gotten positive results, I'm motivated to try the lead tape test.
Jerry,
Be careful with the tape. If you use it as tape it might be hard to remove.
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:59 am Post subject:
Jerry wrote:
Is that what you do when you go to try a new mouthpiece?
Actually, yes, sometimes. There have been several times where I had people listening to me trying different mouthpieces and I would play the same passage for the listeners on several different mouthpieces, keeping my eyes closed as I put each mouthpiece into the horn so neither the listeners or I knew which mouthpiece was being used. But admittedly, I have not done that very often.
Note though, that you are comparing the use of different mouthpieces (something commonly done and it is well established that different mouthpiece designs perform and feel different), to putting an extra piece of metal on the outside of the horn to change the sound and feel of the horn (something that is not commonly done or known to make any difference at all). For something untried and new, I think the only way to determine for sure if the device is or is not just another "gadget" is for double blind testing to be done (or we could wait for hundreds of years of empirical evidence to build up as has happened with mouthpieces).
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 Posts: 909 Location: Joliet, IL
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:27 am Post subject:
I saw Wayne Bergeron using one in his interview with Arturo Sandoval and I've been curious. My main thing is I almost feel like I would want one to brighten my sound a bit with a heavier red brass horn, but it appears many of the models claim that they warm / round the sound.
I think Brass / Red Brass is as far down that rabbit hole as I'd be willing to dig right out of the gate. The solid silver / gold plated models are just too much scratch for my taste. _________________ Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:24 am Post subject:
Jerry wrote:
Quote:
If you can, since you’ve tried this device and I haven’t, try the lead tape test.
Sounds like a good idea. There's a chance I have some lead tape lying around from my tennis playing days. Now that I've actually tried LeFreque and gotten positive results, I'm motivated to try the lead tape test.
They make tungsten tape, now, if you don’t want to deal with lead. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject:
Between freaking (frequing) out over lead and plastic I am getting worried that all this stuff is going to lead me to causing birth defects in my offspring. After all, I am only 72! If Mick Jagger can do it, why not worry? _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
The study was done independently of LeFreque. Variable positioning of microphones by robotic arms prior to recording is indicated; robotic motors actuating the motion of microphones in the chamber were turned off during the recording. The summary posted on LeFreque website omitted any mention of statistical analysis. The summary did not indicate whether the study was blind or double-blind; however, the musician playing the flute in the photo did not wear an eye-patch.
Results were presented in form of a pair of overlaid spectrograms acquired in the anechoic chamber by R. Pérez Hernández (Professional Music Conservatory of Valencia, Valencia, Spain) playing the same middle La note on a wooden piccolo flute with (red) and without (blue) silver LeFreque bridge attached:
From the above spectrogram, the study claimed a shift of the weighted center of power spectrum fc in the 0-5000 Hz range, from fc=2624.2 Hz (no bridge) to fc=2672.2 Hz (with a silver LeFreque bridge). In the words of the study, "... the tonal quality or brightness of the sound has improved due to the change in position of the spectral centroid, fc, towards high frequencies".
A change of fc corresponds to a 31.38 cent average increase in pitch when the bridge is applied. However, the calculated value of pitch shift must be taken with caution. The shift between the red and blue peaks in the spectrogram increases with the frequency, as it is expected with a constant pitch increase. The formula used for calculating fc appears to use linear, instead of logarithmic, weighting of frequencies, and hence overly emphasizes high frequencies and de-emphasizes low frequencies.
Examining the photos of the piccolo flute taken without the tone bridge and with the tone bridge attached shows that the bridge was applied parallel to the keystack and away from the mouthpiece embouchure hole:
The Lefreque tone bridge, when attached as shown, will definitely change the balance of torque and tend to tip the flute away from the player. This will, incidentally (and unsurprisingly) increase the pitch due to a well-known effect of changing the flute mouthpiece position used for fine-tuning.
How does this relate to trumpet playing?
In a trumpet, attaching the bridge will definitely change the weight distribution, putting more weight on the lower lip and less on the upper. Depending whether one is an upstream or downstream player, the effect will be different. It will likely help an upstream player and hurt the downstream player. The effect will likely disappear long-term with the player becoming accustomed to playing with the bridge.
Beyond the shift of the weight distribution, the device may also act as a secondary resonator, amplifying (but only to the player) the high-frequency components of the trumpet body vibration. If sensing these components helps in optimum tone production, the end result will be heard not only by the player, but also by the audience.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3298 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject:
etc-etc wrote:
... Beyond the shift of the weight distribution, the device may also act as a secondary resonator, amplifying (but only to the player) the high-frequency components of the trumpet body vibration. If sensing these components helps in optimum tone production, the end result will be heard not only by the player, but also by the audience.
----------------------------------------------
ah, the human element -
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
... Beyond the shift of the weight distribution, the device may also act as a secondary resonator, amplifying (but only to the player) the high-frequency components of the trumpet body vibration. If sensing these components helps in optimum tone production, the end result will be heard not only by the player, but also by the audience.
----------------------------------------------
ah, the human element -
Jay
Of course - that is similar to heavyweight mouthpieces.
If someone will post a video playing the horn line to Le Freak, along with the video, and using one of these gadgets, I'll become a believer too. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
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