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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Edited
Last edited by dstpt on Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BraeGrimes
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| dstpt wrote: | | Several among us are asking for scientific confirmation of this device, and I get this, but have we as trumpet players always required that level of indepth study before even trying something. |
Nope, just before we buy something...
| dstpt wrote: | | Was there prior scientific data to back up [Monette's] self-claimed reinvention of the trumpet? Eventually, other builders have followed suit with their own heavy horns. |
Well, Monette's science was based on the lack of change in specification from when trumpets were designed to play in both Bb/A in the late 1800s; not specifically to do with weight per se (thought that makes a difference too). Heavy mouthpieces weren't invented by Monette and he's got an entire range of lighter mouthpieces that have a similar profile to old Conn mouthpieces.
I think LeFreque may be taking advantage of the market for wanting to spend $100s or even $1000s to gain a small advantage (if you could call it that, a lot of it seems 'snake oil'-ish in terms of science - comparing two back-to-back samples of piccolo playing is a very limited sample size) - but if someone really thinks it's worth it, I wouldn't stop them from burning through their wallet. |
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kehaulani
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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For me, I don't accept that as an answer. Is there no allowance for trial and error, of things working because you were intuitive and not scientific? I've used the analogy before, but how does one account for the mastery of Amati or Stradavarius constructed string instruments?
Furthermore, why would one exclude trying something out just because it doesn't meet certain scientific criteria? Seems self-limiting to me.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BraeGrimes
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Furthermore, why would one exclude trying something out just because it doesn't meet certain scientific criteria? Seems self-limiting to me. |
Because it's way too expensive for what it claims to do and what it actually is. |
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THE BD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Three of the guys in a big band I used to play with use them religiously, and because of that I tried it, didn't like the response or how it felt. I felt like I was working harder trying to force it to have some improvement so I gave it back.
The three that use it religiously swear by them, but to my ear they still can't play together for crap to begin with. I don't play with that band anymore!
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dstpt
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| BraeGrimes wrote: | | I think LeFreque may be taking advantage of the market for wanting to spend $100s or even $1000s to gain a small advantage (if you could call it that, a lot of it seems 'snake oil'-ish in terms of science… |
Agreed, this is where the whole “Law of Diminishing Returns” would come into play. However, we do find internationally-recognized artists such as Steven Mead, euphonium, advocate the device, so I figure it’s worth checking out before passing judgment.
| THE BD wrote: | Three of the guys in a big band I used to play with use them religiously, and because of that I tried it, didn't like the response or how it felt. I felt like I was working harder trying to force it to have some improvement so I gave it back.
The three that use it religiously swear by them, but to my ear they still can't play together for crap to begin with. I don't play with that band anymore! |
Hahahahaha!!!! |
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | Science calls for repeatability of results. Until there have been several double-blind tests confirming the value of this device, I will remain very skeptical.
Cheers,
John |
But you really want to come home from the show with something really cool (Brian Lynch, Ken Titmus play them) and you promised your old lady you would NOT come home with a new trumpet. I saved $3K buying the toy and NOT buying a trumpet! PLUS I'm not in the dog house (for that anyway). What a bargain! |
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omelet
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Whether or not those frequency analysis chart results are repeatable under controlled conditions so we find there is indeed some way in which this device is changing the sound, the question becomes whether the difference is distinguishable for anyone listening, and if so, if it is even better or just different. |
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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There's a quote from the musical "1776" that goes like this:
Don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor.
This is the premise upon which most trumpet gadgets are marketed to an audience of trumpet players hopeful and hungry for a miracle.
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dobs
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Posts: 80
Location: Hannover, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| I am pretty sure that even without this device the sound waves of one Player playing the same notes two times in a row will be different. You would Need some sort of Robot to see the actual effect of this Thing. And if you can only see the differences through some Computer Analysis but not hear it, what's the Point? |
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Bert-Jan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:14 am Post subject: Trent Austin testing lefreQue on youtube |
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https://youtu.be/j6_sXkiEusU
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Rapier232
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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In the video of Trent Austin demonstrating them, maybe it’s the speakers on my iPad, but I couldn’t hear much, if any, difference.
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Last edited by Rapier232 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan in Sydney
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | Science calls for repeatability of results. Until there have been several double-blind tests confirming the value of this device, I will remain very skeptical.
Cheers,
John |
+1, Mr. Mohan....
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Jerry
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Dan in Sydney wrote: | | John Mohan wrote: | Science calls for repeatability of results. Until there have been several double-blind tests confirming the value of this device, I will remain very skeptical.
Cheers,
John |
+1, Mr. Mohan.... |
John & Dan,
Have either of you actually played one?
I ask, because I was actually skeptical as well before I played one. I was shocked what a difference they made when I played them at NAMM this past January. I'm a believer now. |
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Trent Austin testing lefreQue on youtube |
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Last edited by dstpt on Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 1021
Location: East Asia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| On kehaulani's point, there's a lot of debate about the Strad/Amati mystique on violin boards, and in recent double blind tests the modern handmade instruments are often beating the vintage instruments. (I had a kid doing violin for a while and found the mechanics very interesting). I 100% agree that double blind tests would be good for something like this. If there are any amateur players on here doing a science degree, it would be really easy to set up some of these studies. That said, there are no such studies for 99% of trumpet questions so it is going to be mostly anecdotes and opinion (some more expert than other) on all of these questions. |
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