Schilke 18

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

Ive been a "lurker" on this forum for a few years and picked up a lot of good information that actually helped. With that, I have a mouthpiece question.

Background: I played through high school and college. After college, I was hit and miss but tried to maintain. After kids arrived I took a few years off. I've been regular for the last four years, playing in local orchestras and brass bands. I play lead in these groups.

I play a 70s Bach Strad 37 and 80s Holton T103. Most of my life was spent playing a Bach 3C. Ive always experienced a lack of endurance. A few months back I read an article about matching mouthpiece ID to lip fleshiness. I have relatively fleshy lips and decided to try a Schilke 18 based on some broad advice in the article. Interestingly, my endurance improved... with the added benefit of larger volume and what sounds to me like richer tone.

This is all good, but I sacrified a bit of my upper register. I recently attempted to play on my 3C with less than stellar results (found it hard to get notes out). Suffice it to say... I find the Schilke 18 comfortable.

Finally, my question. Do you think a Schilke 18 with shallower cup would be something to try? Any recommendations? Ive been good at avoiding the mouthpiece safari thus far... Any thoughts you have are appreciated.

J
_________________
Bach Strad 37 (1978)
Yamaha 8310Z

mm55 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412

I played a Schilke 18 for decades. A teacher put me on it long ago, and I just stuck with it. It was the most comfortable mouthpiece I ever played. I play a Curry 3C. now, and I like it a lot better, but it's less comfortable. Some people want the most comfortable mouthpiece, but eventually I went for better sound, and better endurance.

Schilke mouthpieces typically insert a bit deeper in the receiver than some other brands. It always worked fine with my Bach, but it was just wrong on the King. The Curry works well with both.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject:

Schilke now makes an 18B4 which could be a reasonable option.
https://www.schilkemusic.com/products/mouthpieces/trumpet-cornet/#standard
R. Tomasek

bworth · Regular Member Joined: 17 Feb 2018 Posts: 35

I have been using a Bach 3c for a long time and have endurance issues also. I recently bought a Curry 60c (600 series) and when my lip gets tired I switch to it and can play longer. If I start with it first I don't seem to slot as well. I have not used a Schilke 18.

dr_trumpet · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject:

The 18 diameter is going to be larger than a 3C. If you want to look at a diameter and a cup shape close to the 3C, the 14B might be a place to look. The 15B was made from a copy of a 1 1/2 C, so it too will be larger.

I own an 18B and I can tell you, it feels significantly smaller than any other 18 rimmed Schilke I own, including a custom 18A I have.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

L.A.Benge · New Member Joined: 16 Nov 2018 Posts: 9

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

dstdenis · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Schilke 18

bean_counter · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:19 am Post subject:

I have played an 18 since senior year high school, and back when I played hours every day I could do just about anything with it. But those days are long gone, real world it’s hard to find enough practice time. A few years ago I tried a 14A4 when trying to keep up with a former studio pro playing commercial style material at church, but my chops ‘shut down’. Sounds like your experience with the 3C is similar.

The 18B4 was the solution, works very well for me. Better range, mostly in the form of ease and endurance in the upper register. A bit brighter but I’m usually the darkest tone in the section anyway. Wasn’t much of a safari at all. Wish I could find a BBB cornet mouthpiece as easily.

The 18B4 might work well for you, but I’ll give the caveat that I don’t think I am playing at your level.

I think the Stork approach has merit. Years ago I had a brief lesseon with a famous player, he spent some time looking at my lips/ emochre/ face and said I needed a bigger mouthpiece with my full lips.
_________________
Kevin Mc
Strad 180s37 (07 'True Bach'), Schilke 18 or 18B4
anon OTS Bb Saxhorn, Berliner valves c. 1860
Eclipse cornet (Yellow, Bauerfeind) DW 4B Heritage
Cousnon clairon Bb
'60s Besson tenor horn DW 3

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

Mmmatt · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:11 am Post subject:

I’m a comeback player less than 2 months in from a 30 year break so take this for what it is. fME the 18 plays like a much smaller piece. It has a magical rim and a larger throat and the sound is rich and fat. I played an 18 in HS and college. In the day I wanted to try a screamer mouthpiece so I was recommended to try a Giardinelli 1s because it was the same cup diameter as my 18 but shallower. My tone went to crap and I didn’t gain much range so I switched back. Even though the diameter was the same, the Giardinelli felt much larger. There is something special about that 18 rim that makes it sound like a fat cup but feel smaller.

Sadly the Schilke shank is too long for my Getzen Severinsen receiver, so I am on a safari. I will be interested to see what you find. I bet you will be disappointed with anything that has a typical throat and that or smaller seems to be the case with any shallow cup piece. I’m waiting on a handful of used Warburtons so I can hopefully narrow things down by flipping Backbores and cups. Even loose in the receiver of the Getzen, the 18 sounds better than anything I have tried so far.
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1965 Getzen Severinsen
1929 Holton Llewellyn
1972ish Rudy Mück Citation
1969 Reynolds Emperor Flugelhorn
1956 Olds Recording

Jerry · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:50 am Post subject:

Mmmatt, have you considered having a custom mouthpiece made: Schilke 18 made on a shorter (perhaps Bach?) blank.

I bet James R New could do it for you. His quality is impeccable; he's a pleasure to work with; I was surprised how reasonable his prices are for a custom mouthpiece.

I'm sure other mouthpiece makers could do something similar.

Jerry · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:56 am Post subject:

Lang9201, you can't be sure exactly why the Schilke works so well for you. It might be the

A Schilke 18B4 might work for you, but the rim will have a different contour from the Schilke 18. You might be sensitive to that difference; you might not. You won't know until you try.

Welcome to the world of Mouthpiece Safari!

Mmmatt · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject:

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

Vin DiBona · Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject:

I must make a slight correction to Dr. Lilly's statement.
The 15B is a copy of long-time Chicago pro, John Cvejanovich's Mt Vernon 3C.
John's 3C was a bit larger that other 3C's of that time, which was typical of Bach at that time.
John is a long time friend and mentor of mine.

R. Tomasek

Lang9201 · New Member Joined: 13 Nov 2018 Posts: 8

Here's an update. I ordered both a Yamaha amd Schilke 17B4. They are interestingly different for having such similar specs. Im sending them both back; they felt a bit "crammed." I also did not feel any better in the upper register compared to the 18. In fact, they sounded stuffy. Wondering if that tight back bore is the reason?

I'm going to try an 18B4 to see if maintaining the larger ID coupled with a bit shallower cup makes a difference. If this fails, I'll likely focus on putting more time in on the 18 before cobtinuing the safari.

Hope you folks had a good Thanksgiving.

J
_________________
Bach Strad 37 (1978)
Yamaha 8310Z

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject:

Lang9201.
If you want to know why some pieces work and others not, go here to GR school and read about the parameters and variables in mouthpieces. The slightest change in rim, diameter, alpha angle, cup shape, throat, and back bore to name just a few, can make or break a mouthpiece for a player.
https://www.grmouthpieces.com/category-s/271.htm
R. Tomasek