Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 28 Location: Camrose Alberta
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Mellophone awesome
That was a great video, I have an old mellophone but it's shaped more like a french horn. I believe it's in Eb, I can configure it so it plays in F. Maybe, I should straighten the bell. However, the horn on the video looks very strange.
The guy playing is great, if you have ever played a mellophone, it's not an easy instrument to play in tune let alone not to break the notes.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: Mellophomium
The Conn 16E Mellophonium was in the forefront of the Stan Kenton band from the late fifties to the final tour of Great Britain in 1963. This video appears to be a British band with perhaps Jimmy Deucher soloing. I apologize for the spelling here.
He was one of the few guys in England who played that horn with success and of course, Ray Starling was the main soloist with Kenton until I inherited the job when Ray decided to stay in NYC.
The video shown here has the horn in F and believe me when I tell you, they are difficult to play in tune. I never tried the Eb slides but have been told intonation was a bit better in Eb.
Kenton wanted them in F as previous bands he led had proper French horns and he and Johnny Richards felt the Mellophoniums should be written for in F and when the section visited Reynold Schilke for mouthpiece help, what he came up with really helped.
Three of us were trumpet players and Schilke put our rims on a Farkus cup with the cornet shank to fit the Conn. Not sure what backbone he used but life became much easier after that.
I currently have two Conn 16E's and a new version from Amati which is similar in design to the Conn but perhaps a smaller bore. The Amati plays in tune throughout the range and I might be selling my Conns. I never liked fingering A above the staff with one and three anyway.
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:47 am Post subject:
I'm less familiar with the pictured mellophonium (nice vid, thx for sharing). But I am a big fan of the mellophone, at least I am of this particular recording.
https://youtu.be/_qKkQq13OSM
Note that this is a herd of mellophones with some kind of mute. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:55 am Post subject:
Here's the notes from the recording regarding the section:
Quote:
The Tubby Hayes Big Band:- Jimmy Deuchar, trumpet, mellophone; Ian Hamer, Les Condon, trumpet;
I play a King Bb mellophone and wrestling that bugger is a real job in a jazz setting. The right mouthpiece helps. My goal is to sound like a trombone as that's the role I have in the band. The slipperiness does make the shakes and jazz effects easier. _________________ Richard
Joined: 16 Mar 2018 Posts: 75 Location: Fort Wayne IN
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject:
Richard III wrote:
Here's the notes from the recording regarding the section:
Quote:
The Tubby Hayes Big Band:- Jimmy Deuchar, trumpet, mellophone; Ian Hamer, Les Condon, trumpet;
I play a King Bb mellophone and wrestling that bugger is a real job in a jazz setting. The right mouthpiece helps. My goal is to sound like a trombone as that's the role I have in the band. The slipperiness does make the shakes and jazz effects easier.
King mellophones are an absolute chore to play, the stock mothpiece is better used as a paperweight than an apparatus to make music. The partials on that horn are very difficult to acclimate to and almost ruined my playing for a good week.
Yamaha makes way better horns by a landslide but most of my experience with both comes in a marching setting rather than a jazz setting which i have yet to actually see live and would love to try sometime. _________________ Long tones.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:53 pm Post subject:
Quote:
King mellophones are an absolute chore to play, the stock mothpiece is better used as a paperweight than an apparatus to make music. The partials on that horn are very difficult to acclimate to and almost ruined my playing for a good week.
My mellophone uses french horn mouthpieces, so it's an easy switch. Fingerings are the same as the Bb side of my usual horn. I found the mello likes a french horn mouthpiece with a smaller bore than the one I use for my horn (17 vs. 8 drill).
The mellophone player for Dirty Catfish Brass Band probably agrees with you. I've noticed he switched from the King to the Yamaha. Interesting comments on Al's Mellophone Page about them:
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject:
Since only Tony addressed it specifically, the original vid is of a mellophonium which differs a good bit from a mellophone.
Halfway down the Wikipedia page, they discuss it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellophone _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
I spent a couple of years back in the mid 70's at Housatonic Community College in Bridgeport Ct. HCC had a very fine music program back then. Sonny Costanzo was the dept. head. Sonny was a very fine trombonist and spent time with Woody Herman, Thad and Mel's band and Clark Terry's big band. Sonny would bring in a lot of well known people in the jazz world to either perform, sit in with the jazz band or teach. Ernie Wilkins taught sax, Rick Petrone taught bass, Bob Zotolla taught trumpet.
Sonny brought Don Elliot and his group in for a concert. I remember thinking it was going to be corny but when Don started playing the mellophone, I quickly changed my attitude. I learned to judge the musician and not the instrument. Don was a beast on the horn.
Sonny brought in Many other really good people to perform. Bucky Pizzarelli, Clark Terry, New York Mary, Ed Soph and Danny Stiles come to mind. I believe Don Elliot produced one of New York Mary's recordings.
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:52 am Post subject:
I'm just an amateur hack, so grain of salt, etc. I have a 16E and it has an Eb crook, to lower it a step from F. I find it plays more in tune in F, but either way, there are no dynamic slide adjusters, so to play in tune means blowing it up or down as needed. It never fails to please the crowd (obviously they have great taste) when I bring it to a jam, but I imagine playing in a section full would be quite exasperating. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
Where's the like button for the post above? What a great experience.
Thank you. It was a great experience. I'm still friends with three of the people I knew at HCC. We still get together and often remark how lucky we were. One name I forgot to mention was Jimmy Heath. Jimmy came down and played a concert with his quartet. A very cool guy by the way.
Sonny Costanzo was so connected and had worked with all these great people. Sonny was playing lead trombone with Clark Terry's Big Band at the time. He brought Clark's small group in for a concert one afternoon. Ernie Wilkins wrote many of Clark's big band arrangements and we had them in our jazz ensemble book, Everyone from the jazz ensemble was in the audience and Sonny asked Clark if we could do a couple of numbers with him since we had our instruments. Clark was more than happy to let us play a few selections with him. Clark was one of the best to ever pick up a horn, he was an even better guy.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject:
veery715 wrote:
I'm just an amateur hack, so grain of salt, etc. I have a 16E and it has an Eb crook, to lower it a step from F. I find it plays more in tune in F, but either way, there are no dynamic slide adjusters, so to play in tune means blowing it up or down as needed. It never fails to please the crowd (obviously they have great taste) when I bring it to a jam, but I imagine playing in a section full would be quite exasperating.
The experience of playing and tuning french horn can help. On a double horn, every valve slide on both sides is tuned as well as the main tuning slide. On my Bb marching french horn, AKA mellophone, the third valve slide is always pulled way out as is the main tuning slide. Plus you get to know which fingerings and which notes still need adjustments. _________________ Richard
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