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Need to improve range for Solo and ensemble


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spencerkotulski
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Need to improve range for Solo and ensemble Reply with quote

I just got my solo and ensemble solo and it only goes up to a g on top of the staff. Now its barely in my playable range. I can sqeak up to a high c in practice but g is my normal range. This is still difficult to play without applying way too much pressure. Any tips on how to help this?
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason players use more pressure as they ascend the scale is to physically keep the embouchure/aperture from being blown open, a job that the embouchure muscles are supposed to do by themselves. While more pressure does technically assist in preventing the embouchure/aperture from being blown open the downsides are that the lips tend to be pinned against the mouthpiece, inhibiting their ability to buzz and cutting off the sound, and endurance suffers greatly.

The better approach is to do exercises which build the strength of the embouchure muscles so you can play with minimal pressure. The pencil exercise is one such exercise (there are many threads here on TH describing the pencil exercise).

Improvement on the trumpet is characteristically very slow. Building the strength of the embouchure muscles is a long term project and, along the way, you need to learn the techniques consistent with optimal and efficient use of those muscles to build range. Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing (although there are threshold requirements for strength - you build strength over time).
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
The reason players use more pressure as they ascend the scale is to physically keep the embouchure/aperture from being blown open, a job that the embouchure muscles are supposed to do by themselves. While more pressure does technically assist in preventing the embouchure/aperture from being blown open the downsides are that the lips tend to be pinned against the mouthpiece, inhibiting their ability to buzz and cutting off the sound, and endurance suffers greatly.

The better approach is to do exercises which build the strength of the embouchure muscles so you can play with minimal pressure. The pencil exercise is one such exercise (there are many threads here on TH describing the pencil exercise).

Improvement on the trumpet is characteristically very slow. Building the strength of the embouchure muscles is a long term project and, along the way, you need to learn the techniques consistent with optimal and efficient use of those muscles to build range. Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing (although there are threshold requirements for strength - you build strength over time).


During my time on this site I have become increasingly reluctant to jump in on threads and contradict another poster, so often it ends up spiralling into endless bickering between several parties who are totally sure of their own position and unwilling to change (myself included). So what I present here I offer as nothing more than an 'option'; I am not saying that you should discard other advice you are given and I am not calling into question the integrity, ability or success of any other member of this forum (and I would hope that others would extend me the same courtesy). With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts:

In my very personal opinion and experience, the idea of increasing 'chop strength', and prescriptions of pencil exercises or other non-technical 'strength enhancers', are often unhelpful and potentially very damaging. For me, and through observing the wonderful players I have had the privilege of playing alongside, the high register is not achieved through increasing one's brute strength- akin to weightlifting and muscle building, but rather it is achieved through increasing one's efficiency- more like golf, tennis or cricket. Efficient technique is the way to play higher, not simply getting stronger. The best example of this is to look at successful high note players; from 90+ year old Doc Severinson, to Louis Dowdeswell at age 14, tiny teenagers Wynton and Allen Vizzutti, Adam Rapa and a young Ruben Simeo. We aren't talking about hugely strong individuals, but we are looking at incredibly efficient techniques.

Another test I would suggest is watching some videos of the best players performing high-repertoire; do their faces look hugely strained and under vast strength/tension, or are they generally relaxed, with a similar facial formation to the rest of the range? Also, please don't fall into the trap of saying 'oh, so-and-so looks really strained on a double C', because you're talking about notes an octave or more below that, if you want to apply the same tense approach one player uses for a double C to play your own high C, then you probably aren't playing as efficiently as you could. You want to be observing the notes up to a top G (some people call that double G), any higher is a bit specialist.

What I would like to address now is the reason that thoughts about strength can be counter-intuitive. As we ascend the vibration between our lips accelerates, it is vibrating many many times a second in a highly delicate manner. This delicate high speed vibration is far more susceptible to cutting-off than the lower ones. (I bet very few people here have a problem with a G in the staff cutting out, but two octaves above they do...). Therefore we want to do everything we can to ALLOW the lip to vibrate. Increasing tension in the obicularis oris (muscle around the lips) by even a tiny amount too much will cut out the vibration, or cause the aperture to shut down, as will excessive mouthpiece pressure and as will a failure to maintain the correct level of air pressure.

What you want to do is keep the lip reasonably relaxed, or as relaxed as is possible (as the forces become higher the lip cannot remain entirely relaxed as it will be blown apart, but the strength required to hold it together is absolutely tiny) and focus on learning to increase the inter-oral air pressure (inside your mouth), which is what stimulates a faster vibration between the lips. We do this by finding a way to increase resistance (either through tongue arch, jaw position, throat tightening (avoid this where possible) or careful control of the aperture between the lips (always a risk as you can end up closing the aperture and 'cutting out')). This resistance stimulates greater compression of air from the intercostal muscles and permits us to generate higher internal air pressure. Applied to a lip that is not overly tight and prone to shutting down, this will result in the production of higher pitches, and greater efficiency.

Before I go; there are those who like to suggest that the trumpet itself has enough resistance to play the whole range of the instrument without providing any further resistance in our own bodies. This can be disproven instantly; simply blow down the instrument until a pitch comes out, then without changing anything else at all, blow harder until (WITHOUT ADJUSTING ANYTHING ELSE) you are blowing as hard as you possibly can. If done in a genuine manner, and without any natural resistance creators you are unaware of (ie. tooth gaps), then the results will speak for themselves...

I hope this is useful and can add to the discussion.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
The reason players use more pressure as they ascend the scale is to physically keep the embouchure/aperture from being blown open, a job that the embouchure muscles are supposed to do by themselves. While more pressure does technically assist in preventing the embouchure/aperture from being blown open the downsides are that the lips tend to be pinned against the mouthpiece, inhibiting their ability to buzz and cutting off the sound, and endurance suffers greatly.

The better approach is to do exercises which build the strength of the embouchure muscles so you can play with minimal pressure. The pencil exercise is one such exercise (there are many threads here on TH describing the pencil exercise).

Improvement on the trumpet is characteristically very slow. Building the strength of the embouchure muscles is a long term project and, along the way, you need to learn the techniques consistent with optimal and efficient use of those muscles to build range. Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing (although there are threshold requirements for strength - you build strength over time).


During my time on this site I have become increasingly reluctant to jump in on threads and contradict another poster, so often it ends up spiralling into endless bickering between several parties who are totally sure of their own position and unwilling to change (myself included). So what I present here I offer as nothing more than an 'option'; I am not saying that you should discard other advice you are given and I am not calling into question the integrity, ability or success of any other member of this forum (and I would hope that others would extend me the same courtesy). With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts:


LSOfanboy's post says essentially the same thing as my post: "Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing." You do, however, need sufficient muscular strength to hold your embouchure together and not blow it out as you ascend the scale.

When a student is using a lot of pressure and can't produce the notes without that pressure that's a statement that the student has not yet developed sufficient muscular strength to hold the embouchure in place. "Brute strength" is not required but there is a threshold level of strength necessary which takes time to develop.

As for the pencil exercise, Pops McLaughlin recommends it and Pops is as knowledgeable as it gets about this subject. The pencil exercise is a great way to build strength and provides an objective measurement of your progress in building strength.
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
The reason players use more pressure as they ascend the scale is to physically keep the embouchure/aperture from being blown open, a job that the embouchure muscles are supposed to do by themselves. While more pressure does technically assist in preventing the embouchure/aperture from being blown open the downsides are that the lips tend to be pinned against the mouthpiece, inhibiting their ability to buzz and cutting off the sound, and endurance suffers greatly.

The better approach is to do exercises which build the strength of the embouchure muscles so you can play with minimal pressure. The pencil exercise is one such exercise (there are many threads here on TH describing the pencil exercise).

Improvement on the trumpet is characteristically very slow. Building the strength of the embouchure muscles is a long term project and, along the way, you need to learn the techniques consistent with optimal and efficient use of those muscles to build range. Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing (although there are threshold requirements for strength - you build strength over time).


During my time on this site I have become increasingly reluctant to jump in on threads and contradict another poster, so often it ends up spiralling into endless bickering between several parties who are totally sure of their own position and unwilling to change (myself included). So what I present here I offer as nothing more than an 'option'; I am not saying that you should discard other advice you are given and I am not calling into question the integrity, ability or success of any other member of this forum (and I would hope that others would extend me the same courtesy). With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts:


LSOfanboy's post says essentially the same thing as my post: "Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing." You do, however, need sufficient muscular strength to hold your embouchure together and not blow it out as you ascend the scale.

When a student is using a lot of pressure and can't produce the notes without that pressure that's a statement that the student has not yet developed sufficient muscular strength to hold the embouchure in place. "Brute strength" is not required but there is a threshold level of strength necessary which takes time to develop.

As for the pencil exercise, Pops McLaughlin recommends it and Pops is as knowledgeable as it gets about this subject. The pencil exercise is a great way to build strength and provides an objective measurement of your progress in building strength.


Whilst I have no intention of starting an argument, I take exception to your statement that my post was ‘essentially saying the same thing’ as your’s. In fact, I was saying quite the opposite: you were encouraging ‘strength building’ of the muscles around the lips (obicularis oris) as the solution to problems in the high register. I was suggesting that embouchure/muscle strength is not the key to playing high at all, and many players struggle with range as their lips are held overly tightly and do not vibrate freely.

There are many different approaches to range development, and the OP will have to find the way that works best for him/her individually. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but don’t suggest that you and I were saying the same thing.

All the best
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Need to improve range for Solo and ensemble Reply with quote

spencerkotulski wrote:
I just got my solo and ensemble solo and it only goes up to a g on top of the staff. Now its barely in my playable range. I can sqeak up to a high c in practice but g is my normal range. This is still difficult to play without applying way too much pressure. Any tips on how to help this?


Sure. Practice the correct material correctly. The key to developing ability on a trumpet is to know what to practice, how to practice and when to practice (meaning essentially when and how much to rest), and then follow through and stick with it long enough for the desired development to occur. There are no shortcuts.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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malden
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI spencer

A few months ago I was in exactly your situation. I had been practicing, taking lessons and could not play above the staff. I had real problems with classical instruction methods: tongue arch, tense chops and tight rolled in lips. Then I discovered Lynn Nicholson and the MF Protocol and have improved greatly.

I am a classically trained singer and Nicholson’s teaching made immediate sense to me. Singing is about using a relaxed body to vibrate relaxed vocal chords. Playing the trumpet is about using a relaxed body to vibrate relaxed lips, said vibrations amplified by the mouthpiece/trumpet.

The three factors that have contributed to my improvement are: relaxed, unfurled lips (Maggio), relaxed breathing/air support and “hearing” upper register notes better.

The Maggio pucker provides a kind of cushion, and a soft, gasket-like occlusive seal between the body and the horn. If you learn to pucker, you no longer feel the need to jam the horn into your face because you have created a relaxed/fluid interface to the horn and as you blow the lips form to the mouthpiece.

Bill Adam describes this feeling perfectly:”Think about accelerating the air through the lead pipe and of letting the air blow the embouchure into place.” Try this in your next practice session, first on the lead pipe and then on some long tones. I suspect your high C will ring full and clear, if you can keep this one thought in your mind when you play.

It took me a few weeks of practice and a lot of trial and error to get the feel for the pucker but once I figured it out, playing became easier, tone improved as did my range. But it took another discovery to get me onto the right path: good breathing technique.

I had been convinced to eschew the deep breathing and air support technique I had learned in singing in favor of a shallow, upper chest dose of air, the kind of breathing suited for “falsetto” singing but not for Verdi or Wagner. When I was trying to play the trumpet with this shallow breath I always had the feeling of having nothing in the tank and I had to force and muscle notes out. One day, I paired the pucker lips with a full relaxed breath and out came an effortless positive result.

So I would encourage you to double check your breathing technique. Here is a singer’s tip: a relaxed breath is a “silent” breath. If you hear any sound, but especially any “raspy” sound when you breath in, you are breathing in “tension.” And the tension that goes in comes out as tension. Pair that breath tension with all the other opportunities for tension that most players are taught or create themselves and you will be fit to be tied in trumpet playing knots.

Finally I realized, that while I have been trained to hear the note to sing it, I was not hearing the notes above the staff well enough. I started to really concentrate on singing them, playing them on the piano, and hearing them when playing the trumpet. I think this has been a source of improvement as well. Hear the note and the brain will sort things out.

I am now pretty much convinced that trumpet playing has little to do with bulging face muscles and brute strength. Look at all the young child prodigies , and women virtuosos who are not exactly built like Al Hirt. The muscles you need to develop are long, elastic muscles like a swimmer’s muscles as opposed to the short, tight muscles of the power weightlifter. And that elastic strength is most needed in the intercostals and abdomen to take in and compress air in the most efficient and relaxed manner possible. The “panting exercises” that classical singers use to stretch and build the abdominals can be very useful for you. Lynn Nicholson has a video on proper use of the abdominals that could have come from Pavarotti. I suggest you try to emulate his teaching here.

In summary, I would suggest you try Lynn Nicholson’s approach, watch videos of Wayne Bergeron teaching and study Rafael Mendez playing. All these helped me and I hope they help you too. And practice, BUT make sure you are practicing the right things. And as far as teaching is concerned, “trust but verify” is a very good idea.

Good luck
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
The reason players use more pressure as they ascend the scale is to physically keep the embouchure/aperture from being blown open, a job that the embouchure muscles are supposed to do by themselves. While more pressure does technically assist in preventing the embouchure/aperture from being blown open the downsides are that the lips tend to be pinned against the mouthpiece, inhibiting their ability to buzz and cutting off the sound, and endurance suffers greatly.

The better approach is to do exercises which build the strength of the embouchure muscles so you can play with minimal pressure. The pencil exercise is one such exercise (there are many threads here on TH describing the pencil exercise).

Improvement on the trumpet is characteristically very slow. Building the strength of the embouchure muscles is a long term project and, along the way, you need to learn the techniques consistent with optimal and efficient use of those muscles to build range. Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing (although there are threshold requirements for strength - you build strength over time).


During my time on this site I have become increasingly reluctant to jump in on threads and contradict another poster, so often it ends up spiralling into endless bickering between several parties who are totally sure of their own position and unwilling to change (myself included). So what I present here I offer as nothing more than an 'option'; I am not saying that you should discard other advice you are given and I am not calling into question the integrity, ability or success of any other member of this forum (and I would hope that others would extend me the same courtesy). With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts:


LSOfanboy's post says essentially the same thing as my post: "Range is a technique thing much more than it is a strength thing." You do, however, need sufficient muscular strength to hold your embouchure together and not blow it out as you ascend the scale.

When a student is using a lot of pressure and can't produce the notes without that pressure that's a statement that the student has not yet developed sufficient muscular strength to hold the embouchure in place. "Brute strength" is not required but there is a threshold level of strength necessary which takes time to develop.

As for the pencil exercise, Pops McLaughlin recommends it and Pops is as knowledgeable as it gets about this subject. The pencil exercise is a great way to build strength and provides an objective measurement of your progress in building strength.


Whilst I have no intention of starting an argument, I take exception to your statement that my post was ‘essentially saying the same thing’ as your’s. In fact, I was saying quite the opposite: you were encouraging ‘strength building’ of the muscles around the lips (obicularis oris) as the solution to problems in the high register. I was suggesting that embouchure/muscle strength is not the key to playing high at all, and many players struggle with range as their lips are held overly tightly and do not vibrate freely.

There are many different approaches to range development, and the OP will have to find the way that works best for him/her individually. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but don’t suggest that you and I were saying the same thing.

All the best


Apparently you didn't read my post very accurately. I said that strength building is the solution to using excessive pressure. I didn't say that strength building is the solution to problems in the high register. I said that strength building is a part of the solution to problems with the high register because a threshold amount of strength is necessary but that proper technique is, by far, the larger part.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. I recommend keeping it simple. Consistent, if not daily practice is enough to get you higher. Practice long tones, scales, and your etude at a piano level. Be aware of tension, and remember that getting a teacher is the best thing you can do for your playing. Good luck!
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Need to improve range for Solo and ensemble Reply with quote

spencerkotulski wrote:
I just got my solo and ensemble solo and it only goes up to a g on top of the staff. Now its barely in my playable range. I can sqeak up to a high c in practice but g is my normal range. This is still difficult to play without applying way too much pressure. Any tips on how to help this?

What's the specific piece you're working on? Also, how long have you been playing? Can you post video of you playing?

To clarify - what are you basing that it's too much pressure on?

While it happens for some people, I was a testament that practicing a lot won't by itself guarantee that range will come. For some reason many people are resistant to the notion of having a specific awareness of the specifics of what you do to make range happen.

Lessons are always recommended but again, I had a number of teachers that weren't able to help me with embouchure dysfunctionalities. A lot of teachers are great at prescribing exercises for practice, but they run into someone like me and they don't have a clue.

The short version of what made the difference for me was changing some of the mechanics of how I address the mouthpiece including how I set the mouthpiece on the lips, changing the placement a small amount and being aware of various factors not necessarily in this order - oral cavity and what the right kind of tongue "squeeze" feels like when going higher/lower, overlap of the lips over the teeth, the way to tense the lips that works, horn angle, distribution of pressure on the upper and lower lip, pushing air. I also made a change to my front upper incisors by shorting them a tad, which made a difference.

So yes, the "how" is what's important. it's not a matter of developing super-powerful lip muscles. You almost assuredly already have enough lip strength to play a solid high C and higher, you need to find the technique.

What I have now that I didn't have for a very long time is a feeling of the mp being anchored on the lips which meant finding specifically what had to be done with my lips. I recall seeing a diagram in some old method book that stated that when buzzing with a visualizer (a mouthpiece rim with a stick attached to it) a small amount of white of the top lip should be visible within the rim of the visualizer. The photos were of someone with very thin lips that looked nothing like mine and trying to incorporate that myself would have been absurdly non-functional.
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
Hmmm. I recommend keeping it simple. Consistent, if not daily practice is enough to get you higher. Practice long tones, scales, and your etude at a piano level. Be aware of tension, and remember that getting a teacher is the best thing you can do for your playing. Good luck!


Another important lesson for the OP here: don't take everything you hear as gospel. Many people mean well, but respectfully, can a 15/16 year old boy who has admitted to only being truly interested in the trumpet for around a year, has had numerous fundamental problems in that time and has never played a professional gig or teaching job really offer you the help and advice you need?

This thread has seen players with decades of professional experience and teaching time contributing, I would heed their advice (and experiment if some of it is conflicting) over that from a player who is probably around the same age as you and experiencing all the same playing issues too.

All the best
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JVL
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one needs first coordination, then strength, strength being absolutely necessary too.
Clarke 1, legato, staccato, mf/mp is a good start.
Learn how to breath.
have lessons with a good teacher, and when you can with a master, such as Bobby Shew
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
focus on learning to increase the inter-oral air pressure (inside your mouth), which is what stimulates a faster vibration between the lips. We do this by finding a way to increase resistance (either through tongue arch, jaw position, throat tightening (avoid this where possible) or careful control of the aperture between the lips (always a risk as you can end up closing the aperture and 'cutting out')). This resistance stimulates greater compression of air from the intercostal muscles and permits us to generate higher internal air pressure.


The air pressure does not determine the pitch.

The resistance does not determine the air pressure.

The inter-oral pressure (when playing) is determined by the lung air pressure. The only way to increase that pressure is by increasing the blowing effort. The resistance then only determines the flow of air.

Keeping your aperture relaxed and blowing with high effort will produce loud low notes. The aperture state determines this pitch. With development one can do this without excessive effort. It is a worthwhile goal to play with ever-decreasing effort. But, no one can play relaxed, ever.

There is also no such thing as effortless playing.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know he means well, but I find it very sad that Kalijah is still infecting young, struggling players with his misunderstandings of the mechanics of brass playing.

Air pressure variances determine both loudness and pitch. We blow stronger to play louder and we blow stronger to play higher. Whether our blowing harder causes us to play higher, or louder, or both is determined by what we do with our tongue arch and what we do with our embouchures (lip formation, lip muscles and face muscles)

I think it is clear to everybody except Kalijah (and perhaps a few other confused souls) that to play our highest note at full volume we have to blow a lot harder than we do when playing lower or even middle range notes at full volume.

High loud notes: Blow strong, arch tongue into eee (as in when saying "sea") position and tighten face/ lip muscles enough to maintain the embouchure against the stronger stream of air. The arching tongue channels the air to a small area of the lips and causes faster vibrations and higher notes. Starting around High Bb or so, a player employing proper tongue arch will have no air pressure in the sides of their mouth (in the cheek area) because the sides of the tongue will be sealed against the inside edges of the upper molars and/or gums directing all the air straight forward to the lips.

High soft notes: The same as above, but less blowing power and more tongue arch per given note.

Low loud notes: Blow easier and keep the tongue more flattened in the mouth. From the lowest notes up to around High Bb or C the tongue does not usually arch enough to create a seals against the sides of the upper molars and air pressure is even throughout the mouth.

Here is a section of an MRI video showing Sarah Willis (from the Berlin Philharmonic) crescendo a note. As the notes gets louder you can see how her tongue has to flatten down to maintain the pitch (if it did not flatten down, her blowing harder would make the note climb up to higher notes):

https://youtu.be/MWcOwgWsPHA?t=256

Low soft notes: The same as Low loud notes, except we don't blow as hard and (pretty much automatically) adjust our embouchure to maintain the same pitch at reduced volume.

Knowledge of the above is helpful, but as I wrote in my first post, the real key is knowing what to practice, how to practice and when to practice and then following through patiently.

I suggest the OP (and everybody who hasn't already) watch these to videos of world famous brass players explaining either through text or through scientific research study MRI video, the true phenomena of what happens and what we do to play lower and higher notes.

MRI video with a Professor of Kinesiology (who is also a brass player) explaining how and why her tongue arches to Berlin Philharmonic French Horn Player Sarah Willis as she watches the MRI video of her playing):

https://youtu.be/ctyzYXd6HNw?t=538

MRI Video of tongue arch while ascending while tonguing:

https://youtu.be/MWcOwgWsPHA?t=369

MRI Video of tongue arch while ascending while slurring:

https://youtu.be/MWcOwgWsPHA?t=104

And here is James Morrison talking about range (he doesn't mention tongue arch but he sure talks about the need to blow harder to play higher):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujrTDbnvDpU

While I will reply to any legitimate questions or requests for clarification about the above, other than that this is a one-and-done post.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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[Edited to add boldface to what I consider the most important information in my rather long post.]
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's have the argument end here lest we confuse the OP, cause him to try too many different approaches and paralyze himself. Too many differing opinions coming from seemingly qualified sources tends to do nothing but introduce confusion and muddy up the subject.

My recommendation: Get a teacher, or at least find someone who can properly evaluate your playing and recommend how to proceed. In person. No internet questions.

There are no shortcuts to learning how to do anything. Until you are able to get a teacher or someone to help you in person, work the basics of playing the instrument: scales and arpeggios (both tongued and slurred), intervals (again, slurred and tongued), long tones, articulations, and dynamics (both loud and soft). (And, obviously, work on your solo). Do all this with a metronome to establish a firm sense of rhythm and timing. It will pay off.

I think we can all agree.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
.......

My recommendation: Get a teacher, or at least find someone who can properly evaluate your playing and recommend how to proceed. In person. No internet questions.

There are no shortcuts to learning how to do anything. Until you are able to get a teacher or someone to help you in person, work the basics of playing the instrument: scales and arpeggios (both tongued and slurred), intervals (again, slurred and tongued), long tones, articulations, and dynamics (both loud and soft). (And, obviously, work on your solo). Do all this with a metronome to establish a firm sense of rhythm and timing. It will pay off.

I think we can all agree.


This. And to the OP: there’s nothing wrong with you asking a trumpet related question here on a TRUMPET FORUM (!), but one downside to the internet is the fact that sometimes, some people will try to substitute on line discussions for good old in person instruction. You can learn a lot here, but not everyone on ANY forum is qualified to dispense advice. Find a qualified private teacher and PRACTICE, that will get you where you want to be.

Brad
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
Tpt_Guy wrote:
.......

My recommendation: Get a teacher, or at least find someone who can properly evaluate your playing and recommend how to proceed. In person. No internet questions.

There are no shortcuts to learning how to do anything. Until you are able to get a teacher or someone to help you in person, work the basics of playing the instrument: scales and arpeggios (both tongued and slurred), intervals (again, slurred and tongued), long tones, articulations, and dynamics (both loud and soft). (And, obviously, work on your solo). Do all this with a metronome to establish a firm sense of rhythm and timing. It will pay off.

I think we can all agree.


This. And to the OP: there’s nothing wrong with you asking a trumpet related question here on a TRUMPET FORUM (!), but one downside to the internet is the fact that sometimes, some people will try to substitute on line discussions for good old in person instruction. You can learn a lot here, but not everyone on ANY forum is qualified to dispense advice. Find a qualified private teacher and PRACTICE, that will get you where you want to be.

Brad


A big YES to both of the above.
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mm55
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
While I will reply to any legitimate questions or requests for clarification about the above, other than that this is a one-and-done post.
That trick never works! When I read this, my first reaction was to scroll down and see how long it would be before your inevitable next post on the thread. About two hours.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
I know he means well, but I find it very sad that Kalijah is still infecting young, struggling players with his misunderstandings of the mechanics of brass playing.

I frequently find myself at odds with what K says but one thing he said that I regard as accurate -

Quote:
There is also no such thing as effortless playing.

There's also no such thing as "unlimited range" which is another nugget that gets tossed around.

Quote:
High loud notes: Blow strong, arch tongue into eee (as in when saying "sea") position and tighten face/ lip muscles enough to maintain the embouchure against the stronger stream of air.

I find the teeth also have to open a bit farther. For me a slight bias of mouthpiece pressure toward the top lip also helps.

"Tighten the lip muscles" requires nuance - how one tightens the muscles makes a difference - which is part of the problem. The facial muscles are very complex and allow for a broad range of ways to tighten them that don't work and a narrow pathway that does work.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm55 wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
While I will reply to any legitimate questions or requests for clarification about the above, other than that this is a one-and-done post.
That trick never works! When I read this, my first reaction was to scroll down and see how long it would be before your inevitable next post on the thread. About two hours.


My next post was to give positive accolades to two other people. Though such type of posting was not specifically included in my post of what I'd reply to that you quoted above, it is in keeping with my intention NOT contribute to another frackfest of pointless arguing. (I hope the use of "frackfest" is okay with the Moderators - it's a word I learned from Chris Martin so I think it should be).

While I am here, I just want to add that I agree with what Robert wrote above, too. And I'd like to point out that I think Darryl (Kalijah) makes many excellent points here on the TH. I certainly don't disagree with him about everything and in fact I think he is right about most of what he writes here.

Best wishes,

John
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