Best way to learn a difficult etude or exercise

spencerkotulski · Regular Member Joined: 02 Dec 2018 Posts: 19

I figured getting some advice on this would be good for me and many others. What is a good way to practice a difficult etude? or anything along those lines. What’s a good way to go about practice difficult phrases?

jvand678 · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:38 am Post subject:

My approach is more long term and quite unfun... If I am having difficulties in music, I consider it a hole in my fundamentals. As such, I introduce the difficult elements of the etude into my daily fundamentals work. If it's leaps, I address my ears and tackle interval studies a la Cichoiwcz with sing-buzz-play (using Arban (and variations upon), Schuebruk). If it's articulation/fingers, I work my Clark or Geckker studies in the same fashion. Etc, etc, etc...

If they're within your fundamental set, isolation, chunking, moving note groups, starting slow and speeding up seems to be standard practice. There is almost always a tempo you can play it perfectly! Start there!

Best of luck!
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JVL · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:49 am Post subject:

What kind of difficulties ?
what does say your teacher about that?

Turkle · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:20 am Post subject:

Play it slowly a hundred times - very, very slowly. Then increase the speed very gradually. Don't increase the speed too quickly or you'll learn mistakes and bad technique/habits. Eventually, with careful slow practice and gradual increases of tempo, you'll be flying through it perfectly. But don't rush the process!

Unlearning and relearning mistakes is MUCH more difficult than carefully learning it correctly the first time.

That means play it slowly, slowly, slowly!

"A wise man practices slowly. The wiser man practices even slower." - James Moody
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JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

I practice everything almost entirely the same way. The trumpet amplifies the chaos in your head, so your practice should focus on understanding how the music goes and eliminating chaos.

1. Work slowly (tempo and mindset) and patiently.

2. Work in small sections. Two successful notes are better than 100 terrible ones.

3. Learn to sing it accurately and in tune. Alternate singing and playing (I prefer to slur on the horn while I do this) until both singing and playing seem easy and accurate. If you find success playing the mouthpiece, then go sing, mouthpiece, play. With the mouthpiece, I also prefer to slur/gliss between notes to focus on the connection like a singer. This process must go slowly and patiently. Work on tiny sections (even just 2 notes) then work on connecting them.

4. Work in time. Practice with a metronome. Start slowly and work up to the desired tempo. Be sure to revisit slow tempi as you go. If the rhythms are unclear in your head, then count them until they become clear. Write in where the beats occur if needed.

5. On fast passages, sometimes we develop unevenness through our practice. You can combat this by intentionally altering the passage on some practice reps. Change the rhythm (8th note runs become alternating dotted 8th/16th or the opposite), play it left-handed, sing and finger along, transpose it up or down a step, etc. Always return to playing the ink, but working on the passage in unusual ways can keep you out of ruts.

6. Listen to recordings and copy. Try to copy everything as closely as possible.

7. Record your self and adjust accordingly. Treat your recorded self as your student and tell yourself what needs to be fixed. Depersonalize the process so there is no ego, just results that need to be improved.

Rapier232 · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:58 am Post subject:

I was told, start at the last bar. Play that, then the last two, then the last 3 and so on. If you start at the beginning you always stop at the bit you struggle with.
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trickg · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:28 am Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:42 am Post subject:

Learning how to practice is one of the most important skills we can learn as musicians. It is also something which is not universally taught, so your question is a good one, but it not limited to etudes. Or concertos, solos, jazz tunes or even exercises, but music, in all its shapes, forms and corners.

It will take time to learn how best YOU learn, and the steps which help you to learn something effectively and efficiently.

There are so many aspects of this that there are books (many books) about how to practice. Some are specific to an instrument, others to just music in general. All offer bits of wisdom, so search them out.

In a very broad overview, you could isolate a few aspects of the learning process.

1. Know what you are trying to achieve. (listening, watching, imagining)
2. Know how to negotiate around your instrument to achieve your goal. (the what to practice, and the how to do it)
3. Know how to identify the weaknesses in your playing. (The hard bit, as we are all to an extent blind to our weaknesses)
4. Work on the weaknesses. (Knowing how to fix things is a very rare skill, and is why we need teachers, mentors, colleagues and friends to talk to about our playing)

And it goes on and on. It's not linear, but a web of interconnected skills, concepts, desires, fears and emotions. But it does have a start - and that is in the practice room.

And THAT, is a hint!

cheers

Andy
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beagle · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject:

Brad361 · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject:

- Break it into chunks
- Work on sections slowly
- Try difficult passages at a variety of dynamics and articulations
- Work on musicality by simplifying the passages (range or articulation) so that you can get good phrasing and flow

I suppose it goes without saying that there's huge value in strengthening your fundamentals in your daily routine so that music is far less likely to trip you up. I aspire to have enough facility and read well enough so I can sightread whatever is placed in front of me. I'm no hot shot but there's a couple of ensembles where I play part-time that trust I only need one (maybe two) rehearsals before I can reliably perform. I'll gladly bore you with the details of the time I had to sightread West Side Story.
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trptcolin · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject:

In case seeing / listening to examples helps others like it helps me: you might also check out Ryan Beach's very methodical approach to learning the Jolivet Concertino on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/rbtrumpet), still in progress once a week. It seems to me to be very aligned with what others have already said here. The first one that I see is from November 25 (which I think was his second session), and he's continuing to work through it, ~an hour a week. I'd advise really watching them and listening carefully, for inspiration, but to summarize crudely: slow down to the tempo where you can play small sections *perfectly*, even if it's 50% tempo or less - then get *used to* playing it perfectly and increase tempo incrementally for bigger and bigger sections.

He's definitely got all the required range/endurance/technique together already, which is pretty important to remember. e.g. I'm not strong enough to play the Jolivet no matter how slow I take it - I'm better off with Concone and Getchell right now.

John Mohan · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject:

The slower you practice it, the faster you will learn it.

solo soprano · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject:

The saying goes, "The hurrier I go, the behinder I get."

The more gradually you progress, one step at a time, the more surely you will reach your goal.

The Forward Method

Play the first measure 5x's in a row if you make a mistake or miss a note you must start again with time no.#1. Than do the same with measure no.#2, 5x's. Than play from the beginning to that point once. If you make a mistake you must start again. Than we play measure no.#3, 5x's in a row and from the beginning to that point once. And so on until we get to the end.

Work a few lines each day. Play slowly and accurately and breath as necessary. Lift the fingers high and strike the valves hard. Take full breaths keeping the chest up. Most importantly observe your rest periods.

The Backward Method

Play the last measure 5X's in a row if you make a mistake or miss a note you must start again with time no.#1. Than do the same with the next measure, than play from the end to that point once. If you make a mistake you must start again. Than we play next measure, 5x's in a row and from the end to that point once. And so on until we get to the beginning.

It is said that Herbert L. Clarke always practiced his solos both a half step higher and a half step lower than written, in order to make the written key and fingerings seem easier.
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BeboppinFool · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject:

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Brad361 · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:40 am Post subject:

Harry Hilgers · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637

chuck in ny · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject:

turkle and john mohan are right about playing slowly. it takes the pressure off you. a lot of people will learn an etude a couple of lines at a time. that's a good way to do it. repeating a phrase that always trips you up is along those same lines, it could be two or three measures. you take a page that is going to give you fits and make life easy by learning it in a relaxed and fun manner. after a bit you will be encouraged to put the whole page together. this is not a race. it's about playing with beautiful tone and enjoying yourself.