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Krumcake Regular Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 40 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: How Trumpet Works 101 (and 201): resources wanted |
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TL;DR: What resources have been helpful to you in learning how the trumpet functions?
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Perhaps there are similar threads, and I didn’t do enough searching. Perhaps it hasn’t been covered before because it is too broad of a topic.
I think it would be great to have a thread that compiles resources for learning basic-intermediate level concepts and principles that give insight into how a trumpet functions. Ideally, these resources should be based on and demonstrate accessible principles of acoustics and metallurgy.
Videos. Books. PDFs. Pamphlets. Blogs. Anything.
(Preferably, the content is from professionals with real experience in manufacturing, designing, physics, etc.)
No need to post page long explanations in this thread. Given the broad topic, I think it will be more effective to simply refer (and link) to outside resources and summarize their value.
For context: I’ve been playing trumpet for almost 20 years and was recently struck by how little I know about this thing. One of the reasons I’m curious is for the purpose of evaluating current and future equipment.
Let’s see where this goes...
Tags for future searches: how trumpet works - trumpet 101 - physics of trumpet - acoustics of trumpet - trumpet manufacturing - trumpet for dummies |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Knowing how a trumpet works won't help you learn how to play it. Just like knowing how your arm works won't help you learn how to play tenis. It might be interesting to know what makes the instrument work, but learning how to play it is another subject. I would bet that very few if any of the finest players past or present could give you a detailed explanation of how the trumpet actually works. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Knowing how a trumpet works won't help you learn how to play it. Just like knowing how your arm works won't help you learn how to play tenis. It might be interesting to know what makes the instrument work, but learning how to play it is another subject. I would bet that very few if any of the finest players past or present could give you a detailed explanation of how the trumpet actually works. |
But, the best players all benefit from designers, technicians, artisans and development players who do. If no one cared about horn design and physics, we'd all still be tooting on conch shells and antelope horns. Try Wagner on those!
It's like the guys who smugly say, "It's the Indian, not the arrow!" They forget that the Indian spent a long time learning how to craft a good arrow. Someone taught him how. Someone cared enough to keep him alive by teaching him the difference between a good tool and one that will get you killed. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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I learned how a trumpet works by reading articles written by physics professor Thomas Moore that appeared in the ITG Journal. I bought a DVD from the ITG that contains all past articles of the Journal, and there are about 30 or so articles by Moore.
One of my favorite quotes from Moore: "...the time involved in undertaking a serious study of the physics of the instrument may be better put to use in the practice room."
So why learn the physics of the trumpet, or read his articles? For Moore, it helps one avoid wasting money on instrument modifications that really won't help. For me, it helped me realize that the language many people use to give advice about how to play trumpet is just plain wrong.
If you get a chance, check out Moore's article, "What is Impedance and Why Do We Care?" which appeared in the October 2002 ITG Journal. It's a short piece, just 2 pages, but it quickly explains how a trumpet works and why the conventional ways of describing what's going on are, in some cases, the opposite of what's really happening. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Krumcake Regular Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 40 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all of the replies so far. I completely agree that practicing trumpet will help you become a better player more than studying the physics and mechanics of it. No doubt. However, I do believe there is valuable information to be learned which can inform us to be more precise and perceptive in our approach.
dstdennis - Thanks for the recommendation! Now I need to figure out where I put that DVD... I think these articles will be helpful. To echo what you said, yes I believe that a better understanding can give us more accurate language to use.
I especially want to be able to improve communication with repair techs and manufacturing techs. I also have a feeling that I’ll be buying some new horns relatively soon, and I want to have a better educated guess about what to look for. |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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https://youtu.be/MVs2G60-ilo
https://youtu.be/paMT6JGEd94 _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Pops McLaughlin has a lot of excellent materials on his website you can order that explain what happens on the trumpet and why it happens. If you want to learn how playing the trumpet works you need look no further than Pops. Here's the link to his website:
http://www.bbtrumpet.com/home-page/ _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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LakeTahoeTrpt Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 Posts: 120 Location: Portland Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Nick Drozdoff, who posts on this site regularly, is a fine trumpeter who played for Maynard at one time. In addition to a music degree, he also has a degree in engineering or some related field, and has taught high school physics. On his web site is a series of videos that really breaks it down quite nicely.
www.nickdrozdoff.com |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Knowing how a trumpet works may not make you play it better, but it may educate you in making the instrument easier to play; or at least make it easier to play in a manner that suits your preferences.
I inherited my older brother's Olds Mendez as a beginner. Not having anything else as a standard of comparison, it suited me fine. When my father backed the Plymouth over it, I had to shop for a new trumpet. The band director pointed me in the direction of a Bach Strad (surprise, surprise).
In those days, it was not uncommon to find a good stock of pro level horns in mom and pop retail stores. Between a couple of stores, I play tested probably a dozen Strads. They all felt like I was blowing up against a brick wall. I don't think of a Mendez as an open, free blowing trumpet, but I hated the way the Strads blew. I ended up with a Getzen Severinsen, and all was well.
The point of the story is to show my early, natural and uneducated preference for open blowing trumpets. Nobody told me about it. I was unaware of the fact that some trumpets were made to exhibit more or less resistance than others. I just gravitated to open blowing trumpets.
It literally took me decades of playing to become familiar with the term "gap," much less how it could effect the perceived resistance. Same with choosing a "D" shaped tuning slide or a "C" shaped tuning slide.
How about the effect a reversed tuning slide will have? Valve alignment? I'd never heard the term, much less thought about it or its effect on how a trumpet played, until fairly recently, and I've been playing for over 50 years.
I'm not sure that my trumpet playing is better, but it is easier and more enjoyable after I learned about how certain design and construction features on a trumpet suit my playing preferences more than others.
I'm not sure I know any more about how a trumpet works than I did 50 years ago; but I do know more about what design features attract me to one over the other. Knowing about vibration, resonance, etc. is not necessarily at the top of my list, but knowing what design features influence the sound and playing characteristics of a trumpet give me a leg up on knowing whether or not I will like it. I've learned most of those things from reading posts on this site.
If that comes under "How a Trumpet Works" I'm all for it.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Knowing how a trumpet works won't help you learn how to play it. Just like knowing how your arm works won't help you learn how to play tenis. It might be interesting to know what makes the instrument work, but learning how to play it is another subject. I would bet that very few if any of the finest players past or present could give you a detailed explanation of how the trumpet actually works. |
Not really disputing that, in general, but I don’t see a downside to understanding the mechanics and physics / acoustics of the instrument that we spend thousands of hours (hopefully anyway) learning to play well. I have learned a lot about this instrument here on TH (and of course have figured out that there are some very knowledgeable and accomplished players here....and some that are probably neither; hey,it’s the INTERNET), I see that as a positive.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Basically, with a modern piston or rotary trumpet you have 7 bugles rolled into one instrument, 8, if you count 12 and 3 alone valve combinations separately. The overtone series produced by each valve combination or lack thereof fill in the chromatics. Each of the series is equal distance, decending in half tones from open horn through the 123 combination.
Now, all you have to do is figure out how best to use and master those 7 ( bugles and make music... Good luck. |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Knowing how a trumpet works won't help you learn how to play it. | That's a ridiculous claim. Maybe it never helped you learn, but it has helped me and countless others. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I really enjoy the learning process and when it comes to all things trumpet, count me in as a member of the very interested student category!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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