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Reeves cup depth and difference in tone


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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reeves cup depth and difference in tone Reply with quote

Hello,
I have a Reeves 43M/2 which I find very comfortable and efficient for me, however, naturally, I have a brighter tone and I’m wondering about other 43 options to get a more classical/orchestral sound.

I don’t think my sound with the M cup is crazy-bright, but it doesn’t have the warmth I’m hoping for. I’m wondering how much of a difference would a deeper Reeves cup be from the M cup? The Reeves “advisor” tells me a D cup would give me a darker sound, but would there be a noticeable difference for the price paid or would it be hardly much? What about the C or B cups?

In another thread, I was asking about Bach 5C options and really liked my tone on the 5C, however, the rim feels too round for my tastes and I find the Reeves 43 much more comfortable and easier to play.

Thank you for the help!
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, I also use Reeves 43 pieces and I have all the cups plus some custom , for sure the deeper is darker, D cup is not dramatically darker in comparison with M but has bigger throat, the C cup is significant deeper but the sound is not a classical sound , the only cup that probably work on a orchestra is the B but beware is very very deep (at least for me) cup with a very open bore (#24) and I don't now if a 1 chair player can use it as a main piece.
A good idea is to try to use a C cup with a more darker bbore like the #3 or the symphonic bbore but I suggest you to speak with the guys at shop .
Sorry for my terrible English.

Regards
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TMT
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a 5C underpart threaded for Reeves threads! Part of the sound is inherent to the rim, but this should give you the best of both worlds.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
Hello, I also use Reeves 43 pieces and I have all the cups plus some custom , for sure the deeper is darker, D cup is not dramatically darker in comparison with M but has bigger throat, the C cup is significant deeper but the sound is not a classical sound , the only cup that probably work on a orchestra is the B but beware is very very deep (at least for me) cup with a very open bore (#24) and I don't now if a 1 chair player can use it as a main piece.
A good idea is to try to use a C cup with a more darker bbore like the #3 or the symphonic bbore but I suggest you to speak with the guys at shop .
Sorry for my terrible English.

Regards


Thank you for the explanation - I really appreciate it. I will reach out to Bob's shop about this. I wanted to check in here first to see what Bob Reeves users have experienced with his cups. I'd hate to spend a lot of money on a different underpart and not have much of a difference from the M cup. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be many Bob Reeves dealers who have anything other than 43Ms in stock or have a mouthpiece return policy.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello
my "classical" mpc is a custom Marcinkiewicz, 12.42mm cup depth, symphonic backbore, #26 throat (I have a downsized ID one with a #25 throat that i don't use anymore, which sounds warmer).
So i asked also for the same mpc, with a #24 troat, and i can tell you that the sound is really the one i want.
But due to the fact i have to send it back for finishing, i haven't play this version enough right now to tell you if the #24 throat is not too open for me to play extensive performances. If we talk only about sound, the bigger throat has been the right parameter to change (the bb was already the largest one).

best
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Carpenter
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with another poster here that wrote you should purchase a Bach C cup mouthpiece and put a Reeves 43 Rim on it.

I think there's something special about Bach's C cup, throat, and backbore combinations that make them perfect for orchestral literature.
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bdtrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would talk to the guys at Bob Reeves about their Classical line. I play predominantly classical music and use A Reeves 43C and 43ES for pops and show gigs. There is something really special about his classical pieces. I have a 1.25C classical piece that is a regular part of my lineup. They obviously could fit their own rim to their Classical piece with no problem.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I do, actually, have a Reeves classical 3C that I’m very happy with, but I don’t notice much of a timbre difference and prefer the comfort of the 43 rim. I’m not sure it’s worth the time and money for me right now to have a 43 rim put on a different underpart only to have minimal results. That’s kind of why I was asking my original question about if it’s worth getting deeper underparts. I’d like to practice more on the 43 to see if it’s something I want to stick with.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played 42 rims for a long time. For me a 42C with the 's' backbore worked very well on my C trumpet. I tried the Classical 3C, great sound but the rim didn't suit me. I would consider that threaded for a 43 rim.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP:

I think you would like the 43C. I play most shows on the 43C and only use the 43M when I want a really bright sound. The 43C has a nice, middle-of-the-road, warm sound to it, but when you go into the upper register it can be very loud and very bright - much stronger and brighter than a Bach 5C or 3C.

If you want a fully dark, orchestral sound the 43B does that quite well. But as giakara pointed out, it is pretty deep. But with its V-shape (not U-shape) though it is deep it is very efficient and the high notes are still pretty easy on it.

If I were you I'd try the 43C first, and then if that is not dark enough for you get a 43B. I don't think the 43D is different enough soundwise from the 43M to be worth the money.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carpenter wrote:
I agree with another poster here that wrote you should purchase a Bach C cup mouthpiece and put a Reeves 43 Rim on it.

I think there's something special about Bach's C cup, throat, and backbore combinations that make them perfect for orchestral literature.


But which Bach C cup? They all have different depths and shapes. A 5C is as deep as a 1B. A 3C is much shallower than any of the other C cups and very few players can create a truly orchestral sound with it (I am not aware of any professional orchestral trumpet players using a Bach 3C).

By the way, I have a mouthpiece Bob Reeves made for me - I sent him a Bach 3C and he cut its rim off and matched it as an underpart to a 43C rim. The mouthpiece sucks. It feels stuffy and just terrible. Even though it is slightly deeper than a 43C it plays with a shrill sound quality and feels stuffy. I thought it would play a little bigger and darker than a 43C since the Bach 3C is slightly deeper than a 43C. But it doesn't. The stock 43C has a much nicer, warmer sound in the low and mid registers, and its upper register is way easier to play than that 3C with a 43 rim I had Bob make me. Lesson learned.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ed and John for the comments.

I really like my Reeves 3C and the 43 mpcs, so I think I’ll use the 43M a bit longer and see if it sticks. If so, I’ll consider the 43C. The 43 feels a hair smaller than the Reeves 3C, which I like, and the #2 backbore plays really well for me. Ideally, I’d love to find a used 43C, however, it seems the one 43C/2 available anywhere is directly from Reeves, and that’s pretty expensive just to see if I like it.

Thanks again!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bender-offender wrote:
Thanks Ed and John for the comments.

I really like my Reeves 3C and the 43 mpcs, so I think I’ll use the 43M a bit longer and see if it sticks. If so, I’ll consider the 43C. The 43 feels a hair smaller than the Reeves 3C, which I like, and the #2 backbore plays really well for me. Ideally, I’d love to find a used 43C, however, it seems the one 43C/2 available anywhere is directly from Reeves, and that’s pretty expensive just to see if I like it.

Thanks again!


If you order one from the Woodwind and the Brasswind they are just $165. And the WWBW has a 45 day return policy (just be sure not to scratch the mouthpiece or create insertion blemishes that you cannot buff out with a polishing cloth).

https://www.wwbw.com/Bob-Reeves-Two-Piece-Trumpet-Mouthpieces-468421.wwbw

Choose the Rv2Tr43C in the "Please select a style" drop down menu. And I just noticed, right now they are doing a 15% off if you enter LASTCHANCE in the discount code box.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
bender-offender wrote:
Thanks Ed and John for the comments.

I really like my Reeves 3C and the 43 mpcs, so I think I’ll use the 43M a bit longer and see if it sticks. If so, I’ll consider the 43C. The 43 feels a hair smaller than the Reeves 3C, which I like, and the #2 backbore plays really well for me. Ideally, I’d love to find a used 43C, however, it seems the one 43C/2 available anywhere is directly from Reeves, and that’s pretty expensive just to see if I like it.

Thanks again!


If you order one from the Woodwind and the Brasswind they are just $165. And the WWBW has a 45 day return policy (just be sure not to scratch the mouthpiece or create insertion blemishes that you cannot buff out with a polishing cloth).

https://www.wwbw.com/Bob-Reeves-Two-Piece-Trumpet-Mouthpieces-468421.wwbw

Choose the Rv2Tr43C in the "Please select a style" drop down menu. And I just noticed, right now they are doing a 15% off if you enter LASTCHANCE in the discount code box.


Thanks, John
I’ve been looking at WWBW, but every time I check the 43C, the “ships by” date keeps getting pushed back. I’m wondering if how accurate that is though.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on where you're coming from. I spent years playing a Reeves 43S for big-band lead, a 43M for big-band section and pit orchestra, and a 43D for small-group/cocktail gigs. When more "legit" gigs started coming my way, I bought a 43C/3 for "Bb legit stuff" and a 43Bs for C trumpet.

What I discovered was that the 43C/3 worked great for C trumpet and the 43B/s makes pretty much any trumpet I own sound like a cornet (though it tames the bright sound of my mediocre UMI Benge Eb/D trumpet and the wide slots help with intonation).

So my suggestion would be to not jump to the deepest Reeves cups based on assumptions.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other option: You might consider the Purviance 5*3. This is the mouthpiece Bob Reeves modified to create the 43C. In comparison to the 43C the 5*3 has a slightly (barely) deeper cup, a slightly lower alpha angle (meaning the top of the cup is slightly more U shaped and less V shaped), and the throat is a little more open being a #25 instead of a #26. As such I think it would play a little darker than the 43C but not be as deep as the 43B and that might be the right compromise for you. You can order the 2-piece version (made with the Reeves 2-piece mouthpiece blank) direct from the WWBW (its the 9A model in the drop down menu) at their lower than retail price, or if you wish to have the original Purviance blank, you can call the WWBW and they will special order it for you at the same price. Note though that there are no coupon discounts and no returns on special orders.

I actually just took the plunge and after several years of thinking about it, I just called up the WWBW and started the order process for a 5*3.

Cheers,

John
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
One other option: You might consider the Purviance 5*3. This is the mouthpiece Bob Reeves modified to create the 43C. In comparison to the 43C the 5*3 has a slightly (barely) deeper cup, a slightly lower alpha angle (meaning the top of the cup is slightly more U shaped and less V shaped), and the throat is a little more open being a #25 instead of a #26. As such I think it would play a little darker than the 43C but not be as deep as the 43B and that might be the right compromise for you. You can order the 2-piece version (made with the Reeves 2-piece mouthpiece blank) direct from the WWBW (its the 9A model in the drop down menu) at their lower than retail price, or if you wish to have the original Purviance blank, you can call the WWBW and they will special order it for you at the same price. Note though that there are no coupon discounts and no returns on special orders.

I actually just took the plunge and after several years of thinking about it, I just called up the WWBW and started the order process for a 5*3.

Cheers,

John


Oh, wow - that sounds like a nice alternative. Would the 43 rim itself fit on the 5*3? Or are the Purviance pieces threaded and/or shaped differently? Or - even preferable - would the 5*3 rim be similar, if not the same, as the 43 rim?

Thanks again, John! I really appreciate your help.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 9AB and you could totally use it as a classical piece. I don't like it in my Bach C trumpet (blow isn't right), but it works quite well in my Schilke S32. I owned a 43C a few years ago and I don't quite remember the rim feel, but it seems pretty close to the 9A. There's something about the Reeves rim (I also felt it on the 43C) that I don't quite agree with (I think it's the Alpha angle or something in that area) but the sound of the mouthpiece is wonderful. Definitely a lot of color.

Funny thing is, I totally get along with my 4*K4B on my S32.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawler Bb wrote:
I have a 9AB and you could totally use it as a classical piece. I don't like it in my Bach C trumpet (blow isn't right), but it works quite well in my Schilke S32. I owned a 43C a few years ago and I don't quite remember the rim feel, but it seems pretty close to the 9A. There's something about the Reeves rim (I also felt it on the 43C) that I don't quite agree with (I think it's the Alpha angle or something in that area) but the sound of the mouthpiece is wonderful. Definitely a lot of color.

Funny thing is, I totally get along with my 4*K4B on my S32.


Thanks, Eric, for your experiences with the Purviance mouthpiece. I ordered the 9A from WWBW as John suggested, so I will give it a whirl and see if it's for me.
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bender-offender
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I purchased the Purviance 9A as John suggested from WWBW. I received the package today, opened it up, and there was sitting a shiny, brand new, Purviance P8A. Obviously, I called them up and sorted it out.

Anyway, I found a new 43C from a small dealer and ordered it after I ordered the 9A. So I'm wondering if it's worth swapping the P8A for 9A from WWBW or to just get a full refund since I have the 43C on the way?

Thanks!
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