Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:38 pm Post subject: Buying a Yamaha 631...trigger or no trigger?
I’m looking to buy a flugel and narrowed it down to a Yamaha 631.
I see some have the trigger and most used do not. Question is, is it worth holding out for the trigger? Is the aftermarket installation expensive?
You should be able to get trigger parts from Yamaha Parts 24x7. Check prices there and see if it is cost-effective. It is a rather small modification if you can re-use existing third slide. Do a Google search on TH to find about user experiences.
I think that the new 631's come with a trigger. If not, the kit is around $150 retail, as I recall. It requires one solder joint to install the trigger saddle. There is a replacement slide with the screw connection for the rod from the trigger. Any dealer can order them from Yamaha and repair shops can order them from Allied Supply.
and beyond the shameless advertising... either way, if you will be using the Flugel for more than just an odd phrase or short selection, you will probably want a trigger. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject:
FWIW I play a 731 and just pull the 3rd slide out a bit and leave it alone. I don't miss having a trigger. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
The problem with all the posted flugels for sale is that they are too nice and new. I’m looking to spend $800-ish so that means old.
Or you could get a new Chinese copy of 631 such as sold by Trent Austin for even less.
I was leaning towards that, but communication left a bad taste in my mouth when I asked a couple questions.
I rather just spend the extra $200, which I’m not gonna remember in the future anyway, and enjoy the real thing and the steady resale value it comes with
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:54 pm Post subject:
ThatDude wrote:
etc-etc wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
The problem with all the posted flugels for sale is that they are too nice and new. I’m looking to spend $800-ish so that means old.
Or you could get a new Chinese copy of 631 such as sold by Trent Austin for even less.
I was leaning towards that, but communication left a bad taste in my mouth when I asked a couple questions.
I rather just spend the extra $200, which I’m not gonna remember in the future anyway, and enjoy the real thing and the steady resale value it comes with
That is completely at odds with my own personal experience as well as everything I have heard from anyone who has had dealings with Trent. I recommend you try again. _________________ veery715
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Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:05 am Post subject:
ThatDude wrote:
The problem with all the posted flugels for sale is that they are too nice and new. I’m looking to spend $800-ish so that means old.
For that money I would suggest a great copy of the Yamaha 631. A ACB doubler flugelhorn. Has a trigger and comes in $200 under your budget _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
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B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
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Benge 90C
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ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:16 am Post subject:
I bought my Yamaha 631 new in about 1977 from Schilke at their original South Wabash Street location when I was in High School. It did not have a trigger. When I had it restored and gold plated around the year 2005 I had a trigger installed as well. I'm glad I did and I wish I had gotten a trigger for it years earlier.
I doubt you'll find a 631 in decent shape for $800. If I were you I would save up a bit more money and get a real 631. What ever you get you're going to have for many years (about 42 years at this point in my case). The extra bit of money spent will be long forgotten down the road when you are still enjoying a great Flügelhorn.
Later edit: After re-reading Dieter's post I realized he wasn't just recommending some no-name Chinese copy. Though I think it is made in China, the ACB Doubler is from Austin Custom Brass and they do some optimization work on it before delivering it. The price is phenomenally low and if the horn really plays as well as a real 631 and has the build quality to match, perhaps Dieter is right. There seems to be a problem with the ACB website right now (their Flugelhorn page is not loading). But here's a YouTube video they put out describing the ACB Doubler:
An even later edit: Now I have read the previous posts where Trent Austin's involvement in the ACB Doubler is mentioned and you seem to agree with what I wrote in my second paragraph. But if I were you, I'd reach out to Trent once more time. I've never heard anything but positive accolades about him in the past. If I were in your position right now, I'd sure want to try an ACB Doubler before making a final decision.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
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Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:27 am Post subject:
I never pages l played a 631, but I have read post here that have played both and write that they are VERY similar in playability and tone. Though the Yamaha is a better build instrument. At 3 times the cost it should be. _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:38 am Post subject:
There's also Dillon's.
https://www.dillonmusic.com/dillon-music-dillon-flugelhorn.html _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Some nice lightly used Carol Brass flugels (6200 and similar models) have been going for around $600-$800 on eBay recently. My impression is the Carol is very close to the Yamaha.
I was also looking for a Yamaha but ended up getting one of these Carols after waiting too long for a Yamaha with a trigger and a low enough price. I have never played a Yamaha but can say the Carol Brass is a very sweet flugel! Super smooth and even, and very easy to play. You need to keep the pitch centered low like its supposed to be and the tuning is good; let it creep up and the in-staff A will be too high. _________________ Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces
(Side note: I’ve moved on from acb. I’m glad others have had a decent experience but personally I will take my business elsewhere so no need to recommend them.)
Anyways, I’m definetly going to get the trigger.
I’ve found some interesting options, i’ll Post what I get after the holiday
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject:
cheiden wrote:
FWIW I play a 731 and just pull the 3rd slide out a bit and leave it alone. I don't miss having a trigger.
Pretty much what I did on my ‘70’s pre-trigger Yamaha. My current flugel has the trigger, honestly, because flugels tend to be sort of easy to manipulate and bend pitches, I would not really care if it didn’t have it.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject:
veery715 wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
etc-etc wrote:
ThatDude wrote:
The problem with all the posted flugels for sale is that they are too nice and new. I’m looking to spend $800-ish so that means old.
Or you could get a new Chinese copy of 631 such as sold by Trent Austin for even less.
I was leaning towards that, but communication left a bad taste in my mouth when I asked a couple questions.
I rather just spend the extra $200, which I’m not gonna remember in the future anyway, and enjoy the real thing and the steady resale value it comes with
That is completely at odds with my own personal experience as well as everything I have heard from anyone who has had dealings with Trent. I recommend you try again.
TOTALLY at odds from my long time business association with ACB also.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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