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C trumpet for small ensemble


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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: C trumpet for small ensemble Reply with quote

Hello experts
I am looking at buying a used C for a small ensemble of a piano, a few woodwinds and me as the only brass. I have within reach and budget the following horns:

Getzen eterna large bore
Selmer Radial C 66
Selmer Radial C 75
Schilke of so far unknown model
Reynolds Contempora
Bach 229/25H

Which one do you suggest and why? I have never owned a C but am experienced with small ensemble playing. The repertoire is pretty broad and from classical to soundtracks and other stuff.
Thanks
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fyxix
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: C trumpet for small ensemble Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Hello experts
I am looking at buying a used C for a small ensemble of a piano, a few woodwinds and me as the only brass. I have within reach and budget the following horns:

Getzen eterna large bore
Selmer Radial C 66
Selmer Radial C 75
Schilke of so far unknown model
Reynolds Contempora
Bach 229/25H

Which one do you suggest and why? I have never owned a C but am experienced with small ensemble playing. The repertoire is pretty broad and from classical to soundtracks and other stuff.
Thanks


I'm a little biased to answer since I own 2 Bach trumpets (one Bb and one C). My C trumpet is the Bach 229/25H and I love it. I have also tried a Yamaha Chicago Reversed which was great and much easier to play than my Bach but didn't quite have the same core sound. Out of your list, I have tried both the Selmers and didn't enjoy them very much.
However, I would advise you to try out as many C trumpets as you can since only you can decide which one fits you the best. Also, since you've never played a C before, make sure you practice fundamentals on it for a couple of weeks and always with a tuner. The intonation can be quite tricky and the microadjustments you make on the Bb are not quite the same as on the C.

Good luck and have fun with whichever your new trumpet might be!
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you spent any time playing a C? They can be surprisingly different than a Bb.. best if you can borrow one to play on for a while to get used to the beast(s).

Then, I'll second the Bach.. there is something about the core of tone that is desirable.,, However, with the focus on a small ensemble, you might find a Medium Bore C suits this better..

play them, is really the only way to know.

Bach,
Yamaha,
Getzen... (IMO the others listed wouldn't be high on my list)

Then, I'd add a Sonare-TRC-800 to your "look for" list, and if you can afford one or find a reasonbly pricesd used one - a Shires.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the idea of a medium bore C.
Schilke C6 or C7
Callet Sima https://www.callettrumpets.com/sima_c.htm
A Bach CML might also work for you.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy the one you like playing the most and play a little softer. There is no reason to get a different trumpet for a small ensemble, as it is possible to play softer.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. To answer a question: yes, I have played C trumpets before, just never owned one. The comment on the medium bore horn is interesting because I really like the Schilke M horns, i.e. B6 and 7, and clearly prefer the B6 over the B7 soundwise. Will see what I can do and keep everyone posted.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, @ AndyDel, I tend to play soft anyway, playing soft or less so can be done on one instrument, but having or not having a C makes a difference
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david johnson
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
I second the idea of a medium bore C.
Schilke C6 or C7
Callet Sima https://www.callettrumpets.com/sima_c.htm
A Bach CML might also work for you.


the C7 is a poly-bore
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david johnson
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
I second the idea of a medium bore C.
Schilke C6 or C7
Callet Sima https://www.callettrumpets.com/sima_c.htm
A Bach CML might also work for you.


the C7 is a poly-bore
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Stutrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

I'm interested in this because I recently obtained a 'fill-in' C for practice purposes on a piece that has too difficult fingering for Bb. If I was to suggest a pro model for a small ensemble I would always lean towards a Schilke. They used to say the smaller the Schilke - the better they get. However, I am told that Yamaha have improved so much that their Artisan range are superb.

I am also informed that possibly an alternative to consider, for a smoother sounds?, might be a Thein rotary valve C.

If you need time to think about it you could get a cheap Chinese one - mine is a good-as-new lacquered C originally, from Gear4Music, and probably the same as those from Thomann's. It is actually quite decent although I have to use 2&3 for the C on the stave.

Best,

Stu
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another choice you might consider, although I doubt you would find many on the used trumpet market, but who knows. This would be the Kanstul 1510. It is set up with a heavy copper bell that is also used on their Bb 1500 and 1601 (lighter weight) It plays very well and very much like a Bb trumpet. It also has very good intonation, similar to a really good Bb, only in C.

So, you get a more Bb-ish sound that is not too aggressive sounding unless you want it to sound that way. Might be a good candidate.
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: C trumpet Reply with quote

Hello all,
My first C was a Schilke C4 which I still have. I played that model up in a music store in Portland and ir was really comfortable. That was 1976 or so. I performed the Poulenc trio a number of times, and it seemed to fit well. Knowing that you won't just be doing small groups forever, you might consider a large bore and just learn to play efficiently. Bach, Yamaha and Schilke will always have a better resale value, than the other brands that you mentioned. I have also owned a C1L, S22C Yamaha 6445, and a Bach 229L/25A. Currently have a C3HD. I think intonation of the 4th partial seems to be better on the large bores.
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Last edited by Christian K. Peters on Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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giakara
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a C expert but my eterna C is the easiest horn I ever played.

Regards
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Lawler TL5-1A,TL6R-1A Bb's,23CT cornet
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trumpetmandan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will you have a chance to try these horns before deciding? If so, heed Andy's advice and just go with what you like best regardless of the ensemble size. If you MUST buy without trying them first, the Schilke has the best chance of being a high quality instrument of the brands you listed. They are the most consistent maker on your list, IMO.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stutrumpet wrote:

If you need time to think about it you could get a cheap Chinese one - mine is a good-as-new lacquered C originally, from Gear4Music, and probably the same as those from Thomann's. It is actually quite decent although I have to use 2&3 for the C on the stave.

Best,

Stu

Having to use alternate fingerings on C, for me, is the definition of a bad trumpet. Certainly not a โ€œquite decentโ€ trumpet.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allright, here we go - looking at the suggestions that came up. As I live in Germany, finding a Callet in my price range is a real challenge. Funny thing is, though, I have been looking at the Kanstul 1510 and indeed there was one on a semi-local craigslist, but someone else was faster. So Kanstuls come up from time to time.

Another Selmer just popped up, for some reason, Selmers do show up in the last few weeks quite often. It is a C 75 again. Why is it that you don't put these horns high on your list?

Rotaries were also suggested but even used ones (which do show up reasonably often) are over what I can spend at the moment, unfortunately.

What do you think about B&S? Forgot those in my previous posts. Those can be had as demo models or used horns quite often over here in good shape.

And finally, I will be able to play test so e of the horns, but not all of them, so it will be half play test, half hearsay.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Kaderabek played a Selmer C, Also Maurice Andre.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that. Which makes me wonder why everyone seems to dislike the Selmers ...
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stumac
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think everyone dislikes Selmers, they are not as well known as the major American brands.

Conn-Selmer were the agents for Selmer Paris and had priced the French Selmer above that of their own manufactured Bach.

My Selmer Radial C99 I have played in church and Orchestra for 30 years and would not consider anything else.

Regards, Stuart.
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Gabrieli
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Living in Germany, I can guess which specific horns you are looking at - presumably on vioworld.de or ebaykleinanzeigen.
For 500 euros the Getzen is a very good buy and would certainly be fine for your purpose, assuming it is in reasonable condition and the valve compression is ok.
B & S trumpets are excellent but presumably you would be paying a lot more.

If you can speak any French, you can look on leboncoin.fr. There are always loads of c trumpets - mostly Bachs- on there at reasonable prices. I bought my Bach 229/25H from leboncoin for 900 Euros.
Bear in mind that in Germany a piston valve C trumpet will unlikely have been used as a main instrument but in France it will have been the sellerโ€™s main axe.

I love the Bach sound but for what you need (and probably what I need it for) the Getzen would be a good choice.
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