Wayne Tanabe Device Question

[fitzy64]

Hi all,

I am currently trying to get a high E as a solid part of my playing range on trumpet. I have range above and below high E, but the high E just doesn't work so well on my horn, spare a few lucky times once or twice a week.

I play on a 1967 Strad 37 and my private lessons instructor told me that the high E is a tricky note on trumpets of makes similar to mine (don't remember what quality she noted specifically that groups them together) and that I should look into purchasing a device that fits in the tuning slide made by Wayne Tanabe.

Not that I don't trust my private lesson instructor or anything, but I was wondering if someone could elaborate on what the device is, how to make it, whether or not it's safe for my horn, and whether or not I should follow my instructor's lead and purchase/make one.

Cheers,
Fitz
_________________
Somewhere University, Southeast US
10 Years Experience

1967 Bach Stradivarius 37
Yamaha Eric Miyashiro 1

[LittleRusty]

What do you mean by “high E”? The third ledger line above the staff?

I had a similar issue with the D just below that on my 37. Couldn’t hit that note come heck or high water, just on my main horn. My issue turned out to be a gap issue which caused the partials to not line up. Mike Thompson of Thompson Music was able to hear and diagnose the issue on one of my visits to Omaha. A mouthpiece with varying diameter removable shanks solved the issue by allowing me to dial in the gap.

You can test increasing the gap by wrapping one or more layers of paper around the shank of the mouthpiece. Unfortunately there is no equivalent method for decreasing the gap.

For grins and giggles you could also try alternate fingerings to see if one works better.

[deanoaks]

There are a number of reasons that the high E is not working for you. I believe that is the 10th partial of the overtone series which naturally is a flat note and a finicky one to slot. There are a number of factors that will impact the way the note feels to you and where the note naturally wants to lie on the instrument.
Which is what you seem to be picking up on.
Alternative fingerings could help with that, but it will always be a compromise and will result in a tone color shift not to mention resistance shifts which could be awkward to navigate.

I've had Wayne tweak a few of my Yamahas in the past but I have not ever seen him put anything in my tuning slide but I have seen him adjust the gap and bore size in various places on my horns which always help align the octaves (to my playing style and equipment choice). The fact that this item exists does not surprise me at all, perhaps what your teacher is thinking about is a spacer to put in your tuning slide?
Regardless.. Given how Wayne and Bob Malone do their work, which is incredibly individualized, my recommendation (which is worth approximately $0.02) is to not purchase this device with either of their names on it unless you explain the situation to Wayne himself and see if he'd recommend it for you and your needs. I think you should be able to find his name somewhere on the Yamaha site. He will probably ask for you to come in to see him at his shop on 5th Ave in NYC or just tell you to meet him at an NTC or ITG (which you 100% should do. Nice and knowledgeable man). My understanding of the instrument works is that shoving a device in the tuning slide will dampen that part of your instrument which results in a stiffer response, flattening the entire instrument, and stabilizing the instrument. These all being incredibly subjective terms and these things perhaps being beneficial for YOUR instrument. If you come across one, try it out and see what happens but I would not spend money on it.

Other reasons you may be experiencing a hard time with that note. Your mouthpiece/trumpet combo is not agreeing. This could be in the backbore of your mouthpiece, a throat size that doesn't agree with you, a gap issue, a cup/rim issue.
Your instrument could also be leaking somewhere. Given how old the instrument is, this would not surprise me. Over time valves and slider wear down. Bach is also famous for having loose fitting valves (in comparison to Yamaha, Schilke, Getzen, and Carol Brass) which makes them leaky from the get-go. This would make the instrument have a sluggish response and rather narrow note targets which will only get worse as you ascend through the register. Thicker grease and oil could help with this. Monster Oil is a good place to look, although pricey. Al-Cass mixed with STP is what I used to use on my old Bach 37. This combined with lanolin for the kicking slides, and ultra-pure heavy grease on the tuning slide and second valve slide. That could help quite a bit if you are using thinner oils or your valves/slides haven't been redone in a while.
The simplest solution is that your body usage is not in your favor and you are playing inefficiently. Keeping your head over your shoulders, shoulders over your hips, and hips and knees unlocked with your hips over your ankles putting the full weight of your body and spine through your ankles. Shoulders back and chin down to allow your chest to expand and take a relaxed breath. A good private teacher will be able to recognize bad breathing and body habits and encourage that over all other techniques.

Personally, the most logical route (in my eyes) would be to ensure that you really are playing as efficiently as possible and then begin looking for equipment. Odds are you will need a shift at some point, but for now, I really think you would benefit most from just sitting down and practicing efficiency.

Cheers

[dstpt]

I've mentioned in another TH thread over the past week how the E (and E-flat) above high C are always primary "test notes" for me when I pick up a horn, as well as the 5th and 6th partial 0, 2, and 1 fingering series notes. If those notes center well, then you potentially have a great horn. (This is why my recent experience with the newer Eclipse line has proved to be the right move for me, since all of those notes work fantastically well! Enough tooting my own horn.)

Routes to try, and some have already mentioned: adjustments with gap though the use of couplers on equipped mouthpieces; mouthpiece backbore change; body posture and overall approach to playing, etc. The changes on bore (tapers, chokes, et al) that modern trumpet builders are discovering is wonderful. I am not presently a Yamaha player (although I have owned and played them in the past), but I understand their philosophy is if they can make one change with a horn and it yields, say, only a 2% increase in a certain area of playability (range, response, pitch centering, et al), then they will work toward making that change...even if it means a significant redesign. Not all manufacturers have that philosophy...nor do they have the level of expertise of Wayne Tanabe and Bob Malone contributing to their R&D. I'd played Bach trumpets for years and frequently had issues with that note and the others that I mentioned above. I found ways around the issue, though, which is what we do as players. Hopefully, your teacher can help you through this process, or someone's suggestion here will help. Best to your endeavor!

[JayKosta]

Is there an alternate fingering that could be tried? Because the harmonic partials are so near together in that range, slipping off the target is easy.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[dstpt]

[gchun01]

For me, the E above high C slots best played with 3rd valve, especially longer, sustained notes. It definitely feels like the note resonates more than playing it open (no valves.) The center can be manipulated as the slot doesnt feel so stiff.

This only seemed to work on my Schilke, not my other horns.

[dstpt]

[Brad361]

I guess this is not helpful to the OP, but I’ve never experienced that problem with that note on any horn......and I’ve owned/played a LOT of horns.

As far as a “device” to help? I suppose it’s possible, but that would not be my first choice for a solution, my first choice would be to figure out what I could do differently, regarding my approach, to fix the problem. And not to cast aspersions on the OP’s teacher, but I would not advise my students to try to fix a problem like this with any device. If the OP’s horn has a particular problem (mouthpiece gap, valve alignment, leaky spitvalve, etc.) that’s another story.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[trumpetera]