25-o vs 25 lr

[BBTP]

Hello all:

Which is more open? I want to get a bach 43lr or a bach43* with a 25-0 lead pipe. Which is the better option in your opinion and why. The horn needs to be a best suitable for all around playing. Thank you.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Everyone's perception of resistance, and what feels best, is personal. You have to play the horns and see. Resistance, after all, is not physical constriction of fluid flow, rather, it is the sapping of energy by the sum of many factors in an instrument. Leadpipe design certainly factors in, but not just length or taper. A reversed construction moves the forward bell brace and creates a perception of lighter response behind the bell - that translates to a perception of you playing softer for those out front. Its a complex matter, and you have to find out what works for you.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[giakara]

I don't now witch one is more open becose I never had try a 43* with 25-O leadpipe but the two horns have a other big difference that maybe you don't now , the 43* has lite bell with standard body and the 43LR has standard bell with lite body and reverse leadpipe ofcourse.
For me the best is to find a place and try both , good luck on your safari.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

[AJCarter]

[giakara]

Probably you have right but if so.someone knows that for sure it will very helpfull.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

[giakara]

[shofarguy]

Almost always, the reversed lead pipe does not have a longer tapered section. It uses the same length, but moves the gap created by the tuning slide leg to the crook by butting that inner tube section to the lead pipe via an outer tube receiver. Then, the slide's outer tube slides over that inner tube, instead of vice-versa. Also, the forward bell brace is moved toward the valves and away from the bell rim.

These changes move the resistance point further down the tubing which give the difference in feel. One other factor in the equation is that usually (but not always) the reversed slide does not have a vertical brace, so slotting feels looser than it would with the brace.

The only time I have heard of the lead pipe taper carrying through to the whole length of that assembly was from Byron Autrey who claimed he would draw the pipe at full length and hone the outside of the last section of the pipe into a cylinder to accept the slide's outer tube. That's a huge amount of precision work! That was Byron.

Oh, and the difference between the #25 and the #25-O pipe is where on the blank it is cut. The "O" pipe is cut to length a little further down the raw tube, once it has been drawn over the mandrel. This gives a small end ID of about .350", instead of the .346" of the #25 pipe, give or take.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[OldSchoolEuph]

[INTJ]

I think Kanstul’s lead pipe designations follow the Bach numbering methodology. If so, having played Flip Oakes horns with the same bell taper and bore size in 25, 43, and 25-0, it feels this way to me.

25 is the tightest, 43 is next, and 25-O is the most open. However, like many have mentioned, it’s the whole combination of mouthpiece, leadpipe, tuning slide, bore size, bell taper, bracing, metal type and metal thickness that determine how a horn feels to play.

I have played Flips WT bell on: WTs in lacquer, copper bell, silver, and gold; with 25, 43, and 25-O leadpipes, in Bb and C, with heavier and lighter bells, and with several different tuning slides both regular and reverse taper. ALL these horns played in tune for me but there were slight differences in response and ease of playing. So I think the bell taper is a major determiner in how the horn feels.
_________________
Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel

Harrelson 5mm MP

[James Becker]

[Rod Haney]

[INTJ]