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etc-etc
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 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, can one make then a pitch <space> fork with three tins? |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| etc-etc wrote: | | Ok, can one make then a pitch <space> fork with three tines? |
I suspect one could make a pitch fork (tuning fork) with three tines, but wouldn't the third tine be similar to a third point to describe a straight line that is in fact fully determined by two points 
Of course someone will suggest a tuning fork with just one tine. Here are some explanations.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/51838/why-do-tuning-forks-have-two-prongs
Cheers,
Harry |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | Harry Hilgers wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Hi Harry
.............
Personally I wouldn't worry about comparing the Xeno II C to a Xeno I C, and would just try the one that is available for a good trade in price, and see what you think...............
Lou |
Hi Lou, long time no speak ....
Hi Harry
Yes, I haven't been active on here for a while until the last week or so. I've been busy with other things. I've still been practicing/rehearsing/gigging the same amount, just have had less free time for forums.
Thanks for the always good, complete and substantial information.
You are always very welcome.
The C is supposed to arrive tomorrow.
I really hope that you like it. I can't imagine that you could really go wrong with a Xeno, of either version, although I personally feel that the Xeno II Bb is an improvement on a the Xeno I Bb, the Xeno I Bb is a perfectly good trumpet. I played its predecessor, the 6335HII (I had the 6335HGII), and it was also a good Bb.
I fully appreciate that I keep harping on about it, but I would really advise dialing in the mouthpiece gap. It has made a big difference to my Xeno II Bb. I have Jim New's gap modulator, and the Xeno II is in my opinion a lot more sensitive to changes in mouthpiece gap than my Bach 37, and has an obvious sweet spot for me, whereas my Bach 37 plays well with a wider range of gap.
Additionally, if the C trumpet has two third slide stop positions, I'd put it in the furthest one for the reasons explained in my recent thread about this.
I will report back.
I look forward to hearing how you like your new C.
Cheers,
Harry
All the best
Lou |
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Hi Louise,
Again thanks for you always substantial replies.
The horn arrived yesterday. I only blew a few notes on it as my chops are in a rest and recovery mode from the first rehearsals after the holidays of the four geezer groups I play in. Later today or tomorrow I will do the first "C test run".
Physical observations:
1. The silver finish looks immaculate.
2. Valves work perfect.
3. Slides work perfect.
4. There is only one third slide stop position.
5. I do not see a tuning fork (pitch fork  ) on the bell.
6. Based on the shape of the first slide thumb hook and the shape of the main tuning slide water key, the horn "appears" to be a series 2. Unfortunately I have not been able to find Yamaha contact information except only if I register at Yamaha USA with some type of account. In the past this "user contact unfriendliness" has been the number one reason I stayed away from Yamaha. I have never run into such contact problems with Schilke, Kanstul, Bach (back in the day), Adams and Getzen. I ended up with this particular Yamaha C-horn simply because (a) I am always mostly broke and thus needed to apply "the art of the deal" and (b) did not want to "cut-off my nose to spite my face" so to speak
OK Louise, since you have been for ever "harping" about the importance of dialing in the mouthpiece gap, and since I have worked with Jim New on a regular basis, I will order his gap modulator today.
I got out of bed at 5 this morning just to write a few TH posts (actually mostly I got out of bed to sit with Connie to drink some coffee prior to her taking off for a 12 hour nursing shift) and since my chops are on a recovery day and since I am retired and therefore my dance card is pretty empty and since my eyes are beginning to be heavy again and since it is snowing, I am going back to bed to get some more zzzzzz's.
Catch y'all on the flip-side .
Cheers,
Harry |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: |
Hi Louise,
Hi Harry
Again thanks for you always substantial replies.
You are always very welcome.
The horn arrived yesterday. I only blew a few notes on it as my chops are in a rest and recovery mode from the first rehearsals after the holidays of the four geezer groups I play in. Later today or tomorrow I will do the first "C test run".
Physical observations:
1. The silver finish looks immaculate.
2. Valves work perfect.
3. Slides work perfect.
Great!
4. There is only one third slide stop position.
The second slide stop position may only be on the Xeno II Bb. Sorry, I don't know about the Xeno II C.
5. I do not see a tuning fork (pitch fork ) on the bell.
Regarding the bell, I've just checked the Yamaha UK website, and the features section for the Xeno II Bb mention a new bell design, whereas the features section for the Xeno II C does not.
i.e. https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/winds/trumpets/bb_trumpets/ytr-8335s/features.html#product-tabs
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/winds/trumpets/c_trumpets/ytr-8445s/features.html#product-tabs
Therefore, the bell marking may not have changed from the Xeno I C to the Xeno II C.
6. Based on the shape of the first slide thumb hook and the shape of the main tuning slide water key, the horn "appears" to be a series 2. Unfortunately I have not been able to find Yamaha contact information except only if I register at Yamaha USA with some type of account. In the past this "user contact unfriendliness" has been the number one reason I stayed away from Yamaha. I have never run into such contact problems with Schilke, Kanstul, Bach (back in the day), Adams and Getzen. I ended up with this particular Yamaha C-horn simply because (a) I am always mostly broke and thus needed to apply "the art of the deal" and (b) did not want to "cut-off my nose to spite my face" so to speak
I managed to get in touch with Yamaha UK support via the Yamaha London store. If you have a USA Yamaha store as opposed to a retailer that stocks Yamaha, this may be the way to go.
OK Louise, since you have been for ever "harping" about the importance of dialing in the mouthpiece gap, and since I have worked with Jim New on a regular basis, I will order his gap modulator today.
If it is of any use to you, I've found that Jim New's 6.5 sleeve works best on my Xeno II Bb, which inserts 25mm into the receiver, and replicates the insertion amount of the supplied Yamaha mouthpiece. I know that you have a Xeno II C, but I use this same James R New 6.5 sleeve on my Kanstul made French Besson Classic C trumpet, also with good results.
I got out of bed at 5 this morning just to write a few TH posts (actually mostly I got out of bed to sit with Connie to drink some coffee prior to her taking off for a 12 hour nursing shift) and since my chops are on a recovery day and since I am retired and therefore my dance card is pretty empty and since my eyes are beginning to be heavy again and since it is snowing, I am going back to bed to get some more zzzzzz's.
Snow eek! Not good. Going back to bed sounds nice. I managed to have a lie in this morning. It is now 3.02pm here.
Catch y'all on the flip-side .
Cheers,
Harry
Take care
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 1887
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Harry is there a slide pull ( button) on the lst valve slide? |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Irving wrote: | | Harry is there a slide pull ( button) on the lst valve slide? |
Irving, thanks for your reply. I seem to recall you had mentioned this button earlier
Yes. So this “button” agrees with what you said earlier and with the link Louise posted.
On that link Yamaha says (quote):
“The button on the 1st slide is to fine-tune the blowing resistance for better control.”
So based on that and the shape of the first thump hook and new spit valve, I suspect it is indeed to series 2, right? |
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Not sure. I thought that the first generation might not have had the button on the first slide, but after seeing pictures on ebay, I noticed that there was a picture of the bell of what seemed to be a lst gen model Xeno. It had the button, but didn't seem to have the pitchfork, so...who knows? Here is the link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-YTR-8445-XENO-PROFESSIONAL-SILVER-C-TRUMPET-WOW/323647082412?hash=item4b5ade8fac:g:ivQAAOSw7mpbTVUP:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
BTW it seems like Yamaha purposefully makes it difficult to distinguish between the 1st and 2nd generation Xenos. Their catalogue doesn't show photos of the bell, and doesn't allude to the existence of the former 1 gen. You could always send them the serial number, and that should be enough info for them to know which horn it is. |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Irving wrote: |
BTW it seems like Yamaha purposefully makes it difficult to distinguish between the 1st and 2nd generation Xenos. Their catalogue doesn't show photos of the bell, and doesn't allude to the existence of the former 1 gen. You could always send them the serial number, and that should be enough info for them to know which horn it is. |
Irwin’s, thanks.
The question is, where do I send the email. The only way to contact Yamaha in the US seems to be to create an account with them. And that’s one thing I don’t want to do. They also list no phone number I can call. Very user unfriendly. That seems to be typical when companies grow too big for their britches. 
Anyway, in the end it really doesn’t matter. We both know, that it’s all a matter of how the horn plays for me. I just played the first few lines of Libertango and it sounds pretty good. Again, for my purposes and for the money I think I got a great horn. It may even prove to be more than excellent. I will definitely report back.
Thanks again everybody for chiming in on this thread. It is very much appreciated.
Cheers
Harry |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: | | Irving wrote: |
BTW it seems like Yamaha purposefully makes it difficult to distinguish between the 1st and 2nd generation Xenos. Their catalogue doesn't show photos of the bell, and doesn't allude to the existence of the former 1 gen. You could always send them the serial number, and that should be enough info for them to know which horn it is. |
Irwin’s, thanks.
The question is, where do I send the email. The only way to contact Yamaha in the US seems to be to create an account with them. And that’s one thing I don’t want to do. They also list no phone number I can call. Very user unfriendly. That seems to be typical when companies grow too big for their britches.
Anyway, in the end it really doesn’t matter. We both know, that it’s all a matter of how the horn plays for me. I just played the first few lines of Libertango and it sounds pretty good. Again, for my purposes and for the money I think I got a great horn. It may even prove to be more than excellent. I will definitely report back.
Thanks again everybody for chiming in on this thread. It is very much appreciated.
Cheers
Harry |
Hi Harry
I will be very surprised if it doesn't turn out to be a great horn. Despite what negative things I may say about my Xeno II Bb on my Bach 37 thread, in most regards I really like it, and think that it is an excellent trumpet.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Harry Hilgers
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I finally was able to contact Yamaha with two questions:
1. Is my horn a "generation 2"?
2. What was the date of manufacture?
After about three days I received the following answer:
| Quote: | ......... Thank you for your email regarding your Yamaha trumpet.
Our Product Specialist has confirmed that your trumpet is a model YTR-8445GS, and that serial number 555119 was manufactured in October 2018.
I hope this helps and thank you for contacting Yamaha .........
|
So no direct answer on the "generation" question.
With the recent date of manufacture one would expect it to be a gen 2, but then again it doesn't really matter as I indeed love the horn, at least so far.
I still have to "run it thoroughly thru the wringer" so to speak .
Again thanks to all of you that chimed in.
Cheers,
Harry |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: | | Halflip wrote: | | veery715 wrote: | | It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic. |
You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation. |
Ha ha, I never even thought of it that way.
So this begs the following silly question:
What is the the difference between a "pitch fork" and a "pitchfork"?
The number of tines
Cheers,
Harry |
Dare I say Tuning fork? |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: | I finally was able to contact Yamaha with two questions:
1. Is my horn a "generation 2"?
2. What was the date of manufacture?
After about three days I received the following answer:
| Quote: | ......... Thank you for your email regarding your Yamaha trumpet.
Our Product Specialist has confirmed that your trumpet is a model YTR-8445GS, and that serial number 555119 was manufactured in October 2018.
I hope this helps and thank you for contacting Yamaha .........
|
So no direct answer on the "generation" question.
With the recent date of manufacture one would expect it to be a gen 2, but then again it doesn't really matter as I indeed love the horn, at least so far.
I still have to "run it thoroughly thru the wringer" so to speak .
Again thanks to all of you that chimed in.
Cheers,
Harry |
Hi Harry
You are very welcome. As you say, an October 2018 manufacture date will make it a Xeno II. I'm very glad to hear that you are really enjoying your new C.
If you look on the following list, you will see that the switch from the Xeno I Bb and Xeno II Bb happened in 2013 from serial number 526506.
https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/orders/search_result_e.php?m=Xeno&p=&k=&bc=002&mc=002_001&sc=002_001_001
Interestingly my Xeno II Bb (with all the features of the Xeno II) has a model number over 1000 below the initial serial number for the Xeno II. I bought it knowing it to be an ex-demo, and Yamaha said the following:
Thank you for your enquiry regarding your Yamaha trumpet.
With regards to your enquiry, our specialists in Japan have struggled to find out any specific information on your trumpet. The serial number indicates that it was manufactured around May 2013. There is no information on why the number is lower than the original numbering system would indicate. Our colleagues have suggested that it could be from an early batch or prototype model.
I am sorry that we have been unable to be more definite.
I hope that this has been helpful.
For some reason, the above link doesn't show the starting date or serial number for the Xeno II C trumpets.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Harry Hilgers
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Ed Kennedy wrote: | | Harry Hilgers wrote: | | Halflip wrote: | | veery715 wrote: | | It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic. |
You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation. |
Ha ha, I never even thought of it that way.
So this begs the following silly question:
What is the the difference between a "pitch fork" and a "pitchfork"?
The number of tines
Cheers,
Harry |
Dare I say Tuning fork? |
Not to be confused with a pinch fork
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-SCHOOL-BMX-PINCH-FORK-16-FORK-BMX-MX-16-INCH-FORKS-FRONT-FORK-NOS-OLDSCHOOL-/302279674718 |
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