• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Intonation 229 25H



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trpttrpt
New Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Intonation 229 25H Reply with quote

Hello. This topic has been discussed before, but I am hoping to find some new information. I currently play on a 229 25H and it has some intonation issues that I would like to address. C in the staff tends to be a bit high, which I can solve using 2 and 3 (cumbersome). That being said, the B in tge staff tends to ride high, and I have not come up with a solution for that. The D in the staff tends to be low. Could this be solved by having the 1st slide filed down? 2 and 3 combinations can sometimes be low, perhaps because of a long 3rd slide? If anybody has experience tweaking their horns, please let me know. This is starting to drive me nuts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chrisf3000
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and this is why I switched to Yamaha. I have a Chicago model and haven't looked back.

FWIW, the newer Bach trumpets are excellent. The Artisan series is a great alternative and there is talk of newer models coming out soon. Those are the tendencies of a trumpet, but even more so with an H pipe, unfortunately.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sarcastic Musician
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone in the same boat, I can offer a few suggestions (listed in order of expense):

1) Learn to "love" alternate valve combinations.

2) Valve Alignment. this should be your first step, and may well make the intonation issues "livable."

3) Try some mouthpiece variations. Pay attention to the gap; it can have a big effect on intonation.

4) Try some different leadpipes. Larson, Melk, Dr Valve, Blackburn, Pilkzek (sp?), etc... Many of these are designed to mitigate C trumpet intonation issues.

5) Try some other tuning slides. Maybe a rounded slide will help.

6) Full conversion. You can send your Bach to several master craftsmen who will change lots of things to make your trumpet play as well as possible. Larson does great ones.

7) Buy an new horn. Yamaha, Shires, Blackburn, Powell, and many others make horns that may work a lot better for YOU.

Sadly, it seems that many of those intonation inconsistencies are pretty directly tied to "the Bach sound." Everything is a trade off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yctrumpet
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

229 with H pipe is not best in-tune instrument for me. However, the sound is very rich and open. 239 with an A pipe might works better in terms of intonation. You might feel a little bit more resistance than the H pipe, but it worths to try and 239 is a warmer sounding bell than 229.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1688
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 229H with the aforementioned intonation issues. They were partially solved by getting a Bb tuning slide cut for C trumpet--bought one at ITG 1988 from Lloyd Filio at the Bach booth. The only real difference, according to what Lloyd told me, is that the connecting ferrules are a little bit wider than on the original C trumpet slide--but it made it slot better and was a little more free-blowing. I don't know the science behind why it worked but it did. It never solved all the horn's problems, though, and I eventually sold it.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1964 Olds Ambassador cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2387
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian is correct, the longer Bb tuning crook which is now standard with all C180L22925H models provides greater stability and darkens the sound. If you own an older Bach 229/25H it makes sense to upgrade to this slide.

We've had great success mitigating the pitch tendencies through a series of adjustments we call blueprinting. These include precision valve alignment, removal of excess solder and burrs, correcting out of round tubing, and if need be addressing mouthpiece receiver concentricity and receiver gap. The net result is a more even timbre across registers and improved pitch, while maintaining the characteristic Bach sound without replacement of major components.

Though the majority of blueprinting services are on Bach C trumpets, benefits have been realised on all keys, makes and models of trumpets.

Customer testimonials are welcome. "The proof is in the pudding".....
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
RicardoSigari
Regular Member


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 99
Location: São Paulo, Brasil

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher always told me during college: The best sound you will find will be the 25H leadpipe, but you will have to use the most crazy fingerings... I bought one that came with two different tuning slides, the original one, and a MK one, on the original one the intonation was horrible (already sold that slide) but in the MK the intonation is totally in place and the sound is the same if not better
_________________
Bb - Bach Stradivarius 37
C - Bach Stradivarius 229 25H MK tuning slide
Eb - Bach Stradivarius 304

Austin Custom Bras HH mouthpiece
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2387
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Ricardo, with stock factory slides there can be perturbations (irregularities) in the bore that disrupt the sound path. Sizing and deburring slides is one or the areas we target when blueprinting trumpets, cornets and flugelhorns. The cumlative effect of identifying and correcting ALL potential deviations throughout the bore, from mouthpiece to bell, can greatly impact an instrument's play ability for the better. Resulting in improved alignment of open partials making alternate fingerings an option not a necessity.

In addition, many players experience better pitch on Bach C trumpets with larger throats and backbores. Either the new Symphonic mouthpieces, or we can alter any mouthpiece. Our most requested alteration is opening the throat to #24 bore combined with a #24 backbore.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group