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Connstellation 50ies vs 60s



 
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vertrni
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Connstellation 50ies vs 60s Reply with quote

It is generally assumed that Conn Connstellations made in the fifties are better than those made in the sixties. My question was : where is that difference noticeable, and how does that reflect in the price/market value?
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard any consensus that the Connstellations made in the fifties were any better (or worse) than those made in the sixties. The Model 38B Constellations made in 1956 and 1957 were different than the Constellations made subsequently. The Conn Loyalist website describes the differences.

I would think that the 1956 and 1957 versions are the most collectible/valuable simply on the basis of rarity.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 60’s leadpipe setupmis better. It is a one piece copper electroformed pipe and receiver in one. Very well designed and perfectly produced. No rot possible, ultra smooth interior finish, constant receiver size as it is not machined. I have both versions, several actually and the 60’s version plays better
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about marketability because I just don't care about that stuff (my "breaking point" is how it plays, not how it sells).

So to the playability part of your question, a 1959 was good enough to get me through H.S and part of the U. of Hawai'i and U. of North Texas, as well as my teacher playing a Connstellation as principal in the Honolulu Symphony, a Schilke student.

Excellent horn. I would still be playing it if I didn't need, physically, a light horn.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mac Gollehon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Lipshurt (Doug). What year did conn change to the copper electrformed one piece pipe and receiver?I recently got a 1959 36B that plays great and I also have 2 1965 38B Constellations. Did they use this electroformed process in 1959?
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boog
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 36B's, one from about 62 or 63. and one from about 65-68, or so. Both have the electro-formed leadpipe, both have absolutely zero pitting in the leadpipes, which are like new inside. The older one came from the factory without the 1st valve trigger, and the later model has the trigger.

The earlier one had the cone-shaped valve corks on top, and the later one had flat corks. I believe the idea was "anti-bounce-noiseless" or some such reasoning, used by the Conn marketing division in some rather hyperbole-ridden advertising copy.

The early 36b was a basket case from a pawn shop. I had to put it together with a torch and added some touches such as a pinky ring and an added 1st valve saddle off of an Olds. For years it was my go-to horn for recording, as it really sounded good in the studio, IMO.

The later 36b was a gift from one of my fellow trumpet majors and long time gig partner back in college days, who texted me this past fall and asked if I would like to have it. Heck yes! His was in pristine condition, and had sat in his closet for years, unplayed (he switched to keyboards years ago when he entered the ministry as a music director). Both play about the same, which is a good thing.

These are my favorite trumpets and go-to players now. Not bad considering their competition consists of a late model Strad, a Courtois, a couple of old Selmers, LeBlancs, Benges, and Getzens.

I also have the "long cornet" version of these Connstellations, the 28a from the same time period, with same construction techniques, but with the larger bell.

I currently have a couple of colleagues in our community band that started out as music majors on Connstellations. Both wish they still had theirs!

Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to play-test any of the late 50's Connstellations. I have never run across any year Constellation that was not a first-rate pro horn, although there are stories of the Abilene Connies being sub-standard. Kind of like when Benge production was moved to Eastlake. My Eastlake Benge CG plays about as well, IMO, as the LA horns I owned before, so I believe these stories are nostalgic in nature, for the most part. I agree, however, that the King Silver Flair that has been made in the last couple or three decades is not as good as the late 60's one that I went through college with. Your mileage, (and opinion), may vary..
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was my impression that the older Connstellations had a different, lighter valve design that was significantly better than the newer ones, which have extremely heavy, clunky valves that shake the horn during fast passages.

My 38B is from 1962. Ultimately, the valves were the reason I moved on to different horns so many years ago.

Can any of you confirm for me that the older ones have a different, and preferable valve design? Or did I make that up (it's possible!!)?
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aTrumpetdude
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a '58 38b and it has these valves with the cone shaped cork.

I think the later 60's ones had the ones with the metal sleeve around the spring. These ones seem pretty stiff, stiffer than the late 60's conn I have with the sleeve style.[/img]
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That older design is not better. Both are good. The ones you say are “clunky” had something wrong. Probably the wrong springs. By the way, that older system is REALLY hard to find springs for.

The newer ones work great with Yamaha springs.not heavy not clunky not shaky. I for sure know the clunky shaky feel you describe, and that comes from wrong springs, pads, etc.

The newer ones you don’t like can be awesome valves as good as any with the right setup
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aTrumpetdude wrote:
This is a '58 38b and it has these valves with the cone shaped cork.

I think the later 60's ones had the ones with the metal sleeve around the spring. These ones seem pretty stiff, stiffer than the late 60's conn I have with the sleeve style.[/img]


The cork looks cylindrical in your photo. I have a 1956-57 version of the 38B. The corks in my horn are cylindrical (but maybe they were replaced at some point in time - I don't know).

The valves in your photo look identical to mine except the valve guides (the plate underneath the spring) on mine are metal. They look like plastic in your photo. Of course the valve caps (top and bottom) on my horn are different than the valve caps in your photo. They changed the valve caps starting in 1958. The finger buttons on my horn are different as well (no grooves).

I agree that the valve action is a little stiff compared to my other horns. It's a very cool horn, however, that produces a very dark sound.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
That older design is not better. Both are good. The ones you say are “clunky” had something wrong. Probably the wrong springs. By the way, that older system is REALLY hard to find springs for.

The newer ones work great with Yamaha springs.not heavy not clunky not shaky. I for sure know the clunky shaky feel you describe, and that comes from wrong springs, pads, etc.

The newer ones you don’t like can be awesome valves as good as any with the right setup


Huh. I had heard that but three different techs couldn't get the valves to work well so I eventually gave up. Maybe mine's just a clunker!
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