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Intonation help



 
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thomasjet123
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Intonation help Reply with quote

Hi all

I'm looking to improve my intonation at the moment to help further my playing. What exercises in the Arban do you lot find most useful for improving intonation? Or if you have any exercises from other books please could you recommend them.


Thanks
Thomas
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With any and ALL scales, studies, exercises, excerpts and solos you should be working on intonation. Play slow scales, Flow Studies, Clarke Studies, and the like with a drone, with a tuner, with a friend. Listen, listen, listen.

Additionally, play some piano, guitar, learn intervals, sing, sight sing all of these will train your "ear" and improve your "intonation"
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JMWTpt
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Intonation Help Reply with quote

Good suggestions. Also, consider buying a tuner or getting a free app such for your phone. Many of my friends and I use "Sound Corset" which provides a graphical history.

You may want to "map" your horn regarding intonation by tuning to C after warmup and then play each note above and below C to check relative tuning. Recheck C frequently. I've had a few surprises with different horns, such as low E being much sharper than I thought without correction on one horn but not so much on another. Consider alternative fingerings (such as third value for A above and in the staff or pull the first slide out a little) and use your tuning slides to bring things back in line, when necessary.


John
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trumpetmandan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two sides to developing good intonation. There is the aural skills aspect - the ability to hear the pitch that you are about to play and know what adjustments you need to make, if any. Then there is the physical aspect - being able to consistently place each note exactly where it needs to go in order to sound in tune.

Developing your aural skills will be the fastest and most effective way to improve your intonation. If you cannot hear what adjustments you need to make, you will wind up guessing. Once your ear is well developed, you are better able to teach yourself what you need to do physically on the trumpet in order to play consistently in tune.

As previously mentioned, singing, drone practice, flow studies, and slow scales are all good. Use a tuner at first - it's a good first step towards knowing when you are and are not in tune. In the Arban's book, try the interval studies starting on pg. 124 (Carl Fischer edition), but play them VERY slowly. Train your ear to hear the intervals as you play them.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest playing various major scales slowly, and carefully listening to make the note-to-note intervals of all the scales sound the same (and sound 'in pitch' of course). Just playing scale and interval exercises is not enough if the only concern is 'fingering practice' and 'not missing the notes'.

When using a tuner, remember that they are calibrated to 'equal temperament' (piano tuning) - and wind band / orchestra usually attempt to actually play in 'just temperament'.

- equal temperament - note pitches are all the same regardless of the key. They are not intended to always be in 'best tune'. Play any major 3rd on piano and listen how bad it sounds.

- just temperament - note pitches vary slightly depending on the key. The intervals are correct and in the proper ratio for best sound.

Jay
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Human beings come with the world’s most accurate tuner already installed. You’re in the process of training it now. You can train it using your eyes with an external meter type tuner app or you can train it using your already installed tools.

Sadly your fellow musicians don’t have meter-like indicators on the back of their heads so you can’t tell whether you’re in tune with the rest of the ensemble by looking.

I prefer to work with reference tones. Here’s an example http://www.dronetonetool.com

Here’s a video of Ingrid Jensen working with a similar tool http://orpheusjazz.org/video/ingrid-jensen-intonation/

Regards,
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than thinking about special exercises to work on intonation, it’s better to work on intonation while working on your normal exercises. Just play a drone while you practice exercises with a strong pitch center. Your pitch awareness will improve.
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trumpetmandan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOlds wrote:
Human beings come with the world’s most accurate tuner already installed. You’re in the process of training it now. You can train it using your eyes with an external meter type tuner app or you can train it using your already installed tools.

Sadly your fellow musicians don’t have meter-like indicators on the back of their heads so you can’t tell whether you’re in tune with the rest of the ensemble by looking.


I agree with the overall sentiment here, that you learn to play in tune by listening to yourself and others, not by staring at a tuner. Trying to use a tuner while playing in an ensemble is particularly problematic. However, a tuner can be useful when used the right way, especially for a player who is just beginning to develop his or her ear.

Experienced players are fond of telling students to "just listen and adjust" using some of the exercises/practice methods already mentioned here. There is nothing inherently wrong with this advice, but it falls short. It's easy to forget that for someone whose aural skills are still very much a work in progress, half the battle is knowing when you are out of tune, how far out you are, whether you are flat or sharp, and what adjustments you need to make.

This is where a tuner comes in handy. Play an exercise (slowly). It can be long tones with a drone, Clarke, flow studies, doesn't matter. Periodically glance at the tuner, do not stare at it the entire time. Here's the important bit - when you see the tuner telling you that you're out of tune, listen to what that sounds like. Adjust however you need to until you're in tune. Listen again, and hear the difference between the two sounds.

Do not just play until you make the green light come on - connect what the tuner tells you to what you hear. You will develop faster that way than you will by guessing. Can you learn to play in tune without a tuner? Sure. But using one the right way will expedite your progress.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that you can refine intonation using a book or even a tuner. The closest for me would be the Stamp book that helps you play to the resonant center of the horn. Once you get good at that then you need to work on your listening skills by playing with good players.
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clare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the best intonation advice I've gotten:

"To play in tune, play the tune"

Singing, drones, and practicing with others is all great advice, but at the end of the day, don't overthink it. I've found the harder I try to play in tune and the more I focus on intonation the worse it gets. Focus on playing the tune.
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Tobylou8
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add to all the excellent advice already given to get your tuner and your mouthpiece and play the exercises mentioned without the trumpet. Watch the tuner of course and make adjustments with your lips as needed. You will develop your ear and your lips simultaneously.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't know WHY you are playing with less than optimal intonation, so making suggestions is just a wild guess.

I can make another wild guess, and that it is linked to the way you are producing notes. Over the years I have come across students who have either appalling intonation or are using all manner of alternative fingerings.

In THESE cases, it was deficient airflow that was exacerbating intonation issues.The kid using alternate fingerings as playing the Hummel on an Eb trumpet (wasn't Mummy nice to buy him a Stomvi titan without asking?) Once he got some air moving, the problems disappeared and more usual fingerings were fine. To do that, he needed to just use them and BLOW with more energy in his airstream. The younger ones with intonation issues had both por airflow and were unaware of intonation at all! Comes from being 8 years old...

Once you get past these hurdles, all of the above can help if you let your ears do the work they need to do.

cheers

Andy
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play scales along with Aebersold Vol. 24.
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Play scales along with Aebersold Vol. 24.


+1

Play along with tracks, you'll know if you playing in tune soon enough, also download Matt Anklans bill Adam warm up stuff off his website and play along with it. If your going to use a tuner, use it to play tones, get them in your ear and then you play them back, think of the bill adam ascending scale exercise as a guide. Play the g on the tuner, then you play it, don't look at the tuner, play it from memory. then the F#, then the G# etc, don't look at the tuner, just use it to play tones.

tom
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evillalobos12
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing any tonal excercises along with “The Tuning C.D.” by Dr. Richard Schwartz did wonders for me. It comes in A=440, up to A=442. You can buy it online on multiple sites, and it’s also on Spotify.
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