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Endurance for Musicals


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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by dstpt on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: Sound techs / engineers / designers / etc:

All I know is when it leaves the business end of my horn - it's golden.

What happens between that and the back wall of the venue I have zero control over so I simply don't worry about it.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
re: Sound techs / engineers / designers / etc:

All I know is when it leaves the business end of my horn - it's golden.

What happens between that and the back wall of the venue I have zero control over so I simply don't worry about it.


Perfect! 👍

Brad
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Rapier232
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some great information being given out here. Thanks.
I get to play in musicals at Christmas and in the summer. Both are Theatre shows of two weeks. The Christmas one is a Pantomime, so lots of various styles to play, but with no pressure. The MD will change any bits we ask, to,make our lives easier.
The summer shows are ‘proper’ musicals. Les Mis, Sweeney Todd, Guys and Dolls have been the last three. This year it’s Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

As soon as I get the book, I take it to a local printer to get it copied and put into a ring binder. That way I can do what I like to it. Things like awkward page turns and repeats can be photocopied and moved around to make life easier. Like never having to turn back a page for a repeated section. Writing what mutes are required at the Top of each piece etc. Then when the show is over I can hand back the original book, without having to erase all the pencil markings for the cuts, loops or extra repeats put in to fill a scene change etc.

Having come from a brass Band background, where the cornet is hardly ever off your face for more than a bar or two, I don’t find musicals to be too demanding, except for the matinee and evening days. They can be tougher.

I love seeing the show come together and being part of the whole performance. And it’s nice seeing my name in the programme too, as the whole band are listed.
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gchun01
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rapier232"].........
As soon as I get the book, I take it to a local printer to get it copied and put into a ring binder. That way I can do what I like to it. Things like awkward page turns and repeats can be photocopied and moved around to make life easier. Like never having to turn back a page for a repeated section. Writing what mutes are required at the Top of each piece etc. Then when the show is over I can hand back the original book, without having to erase all the pencil markings for the cuts, loops or extra repeats put in to fill a scene change etc.

......../quote]

I do the same thing. The MD provides us with photocopies as well.

The "Like never having to turn back a page for a repeated section" is very important, as I learned from examples from professional engravers. The idea is to get the book as easy to read as possible, just in case a sub has to come in.

When all the notes and adjustments have been made, I'll scan it and put a copy on my ipad. Depending on the show, sometimes the Ipad is the copy used; sometimes the paper version is the one used. What's not used as the performance copy acts as the backup, or the one sent to the sub in advance. Each show is different.

The ipad bluetooth pedal page turner would have come in handy on those "one beat page turns" or "one beat mute changes."
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jazzvuu
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I will have a mic (i would put my money on no unfortunately). What also scares me though is my 2nd and 3rd trumpet are very weak and green. My 2nd trumpet has a tendency to clamp down and start going a quarter step sharp on the top part of the staff and up (even with his tuning slide pull out an inch and half or two inches). They are student players and this will always be first and foremost about student education and experience but my world am I in for some fighting in the horn line. They are not my students by the way, I am the orchestra director, not the band guy.
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gchun01
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set the tone/mood for the younger players. Clean, precise playing; exaggerated dynamics and articulations and a strong mental focus and concentration. They definitely can learn from you being the more experienced player.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a pit-mix monitor (or better yet an Aviom system!) I suggest this in your cans:

- MD talk-back
- a little bit of YOU
- bass
- a little bit of drums (snare & hi-hat)
- a little bit of keyboard 1
- a very little bit of stage voice.
- NO other trumpet (if you're playing the 1st book)
- NO strings
- NO reeds
- NO trombone

Why?

From my experience, the more stuff you have in the cans the harder it'll be to hear YOU, and you'll then play louder which will be the death of you.

Only enough stage voice to help with cues.

Most def you do NOT want them strong as their vibrato and often pitch will drive you crazy. If you know you're unison with the soprano and she gets off center, you then need to back off on your volume and let her have the note. She surely will not be listening to you & your pitch & you don't want this to become a contest.

No strings because their pitch & time will drive you crazy.

No reeds, trombone or other trumpet because you'll hear enough from ambient bleed-thru.

As to your student trumpet guys...someone needs to spend some serious time with them on fundamentals. Fixing pitch problems like that can't be addressed in a pit.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by dstpt on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited

Last edited by dstpt on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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gchun01
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those AVIOM systems are great, probably considered the Rolls-Royce of monitoring systems.

I’ve been using a now discontinued ArtHPFX, which is similar to the Rolls, except it takes 2 mics (perfect for trumpet 1 & 2) and had built-in effects, which can set to each user’s own taste, but passed thru clean to the house:

http://artproaudio.com/product/hpfx-headphone-mixer-amplifier/

The effects are great as sometimes closed mic brass can sound harsh thru in-ears or headphones.
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american boy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That AVIOM system sounds like a trip..Special effects? Does it have a clam cleaner feature; Ill take 2!
Seriously,sound in the pit can make a gig bearable or not; Many years ago I went out for a tour with an Andrew Lloyd Weber rock show and when I got to the first city on the tour,it was loud as you know what in that pit; After complaining for weeks,and getting ready to bail,they actually redesigned the pit to add individual mixing boards and headphones.! Turned down everything but ME and that gig became a walk in the park compared to before..Decades later I think I have slight hearing loss from those first couple of weeks
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jazzvuu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after the first rehearsal of pit with stage, i know it will be a no mic situation for all parts except bass and keys. The student plays are insecire in their parts so they are not blasting (bad for music but less competition of getting sound out). I survived a 4 hour slow moving rehearsal yesterday (downtime between playing for clearing up stage instructions and etc).

As for students needing fundamentals. I agree but the kid is a senior already and as said, not going to be fixed in the pit. It is unfortunate that he has been allowed to continue for 7 years without anyone addressing it. He is or was on lessons for a while too.

The personal monitor seems tempting but i already bought a solotone mute for this show and i am a volunteer. Dont feel like sinking more money just yet. Also our sound tech is really grumpy and stuff and adding something would.seem like wanting to start a fight with him.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzvuu wrote:
So after the first rehearsal of pit with stage, i know it will be a no mic situation for all parts except bass and keys. The student plays are insecire in their parts so they are not blasting (bad for music but less competition of getting sound out). I survived a 4 hour slow moving rehearsal yesterday (downtime between playing for clearing up stage instructions and etc).

As for students needing fundamentals. I agree but the kid is a senior already and as said, not going to be fixed in the pit. It is unfortunate that he has been allowed to continue for 7 years without anyone addressing it. He is or was on lessons for a while too.

The personal monitor seems tempting but i already bought a solotone mute for this show and i am a volunteer. Dont feel like sinking more money just yet. Also our sound tech is really grumpy and stuff and adding something would.seem like wanting to start a fight with him.


Sounds like there is not a lot you can do here other than survive it....and maybe decline to do this if it comes up again next year?

As you mentioned, you can’t do much to correct students’ deficiencies in this situation, about all you can do is play your part, try to set a good example for the students both musically and otherwise and get through it. You mentioned the kid with significant problems. There’s no way to know, but there may have been teachers throughout his years of playing who DID try to address the problems. But as a teacher yourself you know that a kid can have great instruction, but simply be unwilling to apply it by PRACTICING. And that is not meant as an excuse for any possible inadequate teachers this kid may or may not have had.

As far as purchasing anything else (monitors, etc.), I know I probably would not, unless I planned to use them again in the future.

Good luck!😎

Brad
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you are a pickett guy stay with them. in the 3 size try a C cup. you will sound bright on it. this is actually the trouble with going to a vendor and trying out mouthpieces. it takes 15 minutes to initially adjust. anyway don't go deeper than C. it's possible to play either dark or bright with it and you will be able to achieve your sound once your ears and lips coordinate. you are going to play the sound that is in your head.
you should be able to play the 3C and 5C sizes. ideally give a new mouthpiece a few days before passing judgment. these are very conservative choices and worth having on your shelf.
noteworthy that both cup depth and rim diameter are in the middle of specifications and in agreement with buddha's middle way.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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plp
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gchun01 wrote:
trpthrld wrote:


I thought the high F in the Bows music was a bit much. Kinda like the optional (and we all know "optional" ain't an option, right?) dubba A LAST NOTE in "Little Shop" was a "Really - you're serious??" kind of moment.



Great comments, Tim!

When in doubt, discuss things with your MD. Those "dubba" notes can seem out of place, depending on the size of the ensemble and orchestra. I'm sure having the entire number played musically with precision that fits the context of the show is ALWAYS preferred to a couple of freakish high notes.

Dubbas always depend on the player, will shamelessly admit to dropping octaves when it just serves the overall homogeneity of the chord structure better. I am not Waynard, or Bud, or any of the other players whom can pull off a dubba A at the finale of a 2 hour gig, with any dependability.

Now, I have done it, but was just because I was playing strong that night. My day gig involves climbing fences and digging stuff up, a full day of that and I am sucking wind at the end of a 2 hour performance.

It is better to be tasteful, in tune, and in tone, than to try to squeeze out an thin, strained, out of tune note.

Every once in a while, put yourself in the audiences' perspective and evaluate if the trumpet playing enhances or distracts from the show. Number one priority is to support what's going on the stage.

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Since all other motivesfame, money, power, even honorare thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it. Wayne Booth
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