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Lead in Mouthpieces


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Namuhs55
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Joined: 03 May 2003
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Location: Salinas, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Lead in Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Came across this article regarding testing mouthpieces for lead. Thoughts?

https://www.ceh.org/campaigns/legal-action/current-work/lead-found-brass-mouthpieces-used-musical-instruments/?fbclid=IwAR0SC5XhUPVXWocQv6Fb7CPyBj8ruXNF2q__cgK5ckhiqPMcvEQAyT2UgRE

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James Becker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we've advised customers, if you've worn through the plating on the rim of your mouthpiece and have exposed brass, it's time to replate or replace your mouthpiece. One more solution overlooked in this article are alternative screw rim materials like delrin and lexan.

I hope this is helpful.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their story fails to report on how they tested the mouthpieces, what percentage of lead the mouthpieces contained, or where the lead was found. For me, the article raises more questions than it answers.

Mike
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many brass alloys contain a small amount of lead because it acts as a lubricant in the machining process. As Mr Becker pointed out it is not a problem unless there is exposed brass where your lips contact the mouthpiece. Replate or replace.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The impression I got from the article is that these were not old used and worn mouthpieces, but rather new purchased ones - ones that should not have issues with plating wear.
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cjl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They purposefully don’t tell you how they test. They just scream LEAD so everyone will panic and they can hopefully make a bunch of money with their lawsuits “for the people.”

Did you read their bios? Social worker, organizer, political ecologist???

One of the worst advances science has ever made is the ability to measure parts per billion.

People need to worry about the things that will kill them, like using your phone while driving, drugs, drinking to excess, etc.

Next they will find traces of Roundup in valve oil.

Sorry, I just don’t believe this is a real threat.

— Joe
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Free machining” brass alloy “360” is what most mouthpieces are made of. That alloy is 3 percent lead. A fair amount. If the test method scraped of a bit and then dissolved in acid it would show a lot of lead.

I had a friend who checks for lead contamination with some sort of sensor check a bare mouthpiece and it did not show brass. Brass sealed under sliver plate doesn’t show up either of course.

I work with 360 a lot with my bare hands sanding and buffing etc, and always have my blood work check for lead. Never shows up.

I stopped worrying about it
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, yes. Alarmists hard at work.

Knuckleheads.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sure 'warning sign' is when you notice a metallic taste from the mpc.

Jay
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

California, of course.
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more alternative besides stainless steal mouthpieces is plastic screw rims. We offer Lucite and Delrin options for the rims of our Osmun Horm mouthpieces https://osmun.com/osmun-horn-mouthpieces/ So what's required is to digitize your trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn rim and thread the underpart. We can match any thread, Giardinelli, Bach or Warburton and you're good to go.

I hope this is helpful.
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77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
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www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am struggling to find something polite to say about this sort of nonsense. Are we to believe that after millennia of lead-containing alloys used by humans without harm (including trumpeters for over 5 centuries - hey, how many of you have a raw brass horn, perhaps vintage with lead solder, that have in your hands all the time?), suddenly the laws of physics have been repealed (as one freshman congresswoman famously told TV cameras her "gutless" peers needed to step up and do a few years ago) and those lead atoms now have such an affinity for hemoglobin that they will separate out of the brass, like zinc in an acid bath, and jump into your body. (Anyone's vintage or Taylor solder joints fall apart because your hand sucked all that solder out?) Its ridiculous. Yes, some famous musicians probably died of lead poisoning (like Mozart), but it was from the pure lead seals on booze bottles that haven't been used in a century or two.!
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test.

Yes, they left a number of things out of the article. But they remembered to include the "donate" button.

There may be a real issue here, especially with raw brass. But this web site is more of a fundraising vehicle, not a source of knowledge.

Mike
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
California, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how an entire state can be condemned over an incomplete report. I would never condemn the author's home state of Alabama for... any number of reasons. The fact of the matter is how these conclusions were drawn. Without carefully examining the research, we are in no position to either agree or disagree with the stated conclusions.

My guess is that these mouthpieces were scraped exposing the raw brass under the plating, which would show the presence of lead. If their conclusions are that the lead is leaching through the plating, then I would like to see proof of this.

Years ago, the lead was removed from solder used in plumbing, for health reasons. Plumbing fixtures such as faucets are still made from brass which I would assume still contain lead. The lead from the brass in these fixtures may or may not be leaching into the water that passes through them.

However, raw brass from an unplated mouthpiece or a mouthpiece with worn plating does post a risk to the end user, regardless of the state in which this report was written.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test.

Yes, they left a number of things out of the article. But they remembered to include the "donate" button.

There may be a real issue here, especially with raw brass. But this web site is more of a fundraising vehicle, not a source of knowledge.

Mike

Well stated.

I'm decidedly antipollution and generally sympathetic to those pointing out health risks, but the complete lack of data here makes this headline of little value.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
kalijah wrote:
California, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how an entire state can be condemned over an incomplete report. I would never condemn the author's home state of Alabama for... any number of reasons.


Except that this is just the latest piece of stupidity coming out of California.

His comment doesn't necessarily condemn every citizen, just our troublemakers.

But just in case you still think it isn't fair for someone from Alabama to make such a statement, let a native Californian say it: California, of course.
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atom_anderson
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if there is more lead in the lead mouthpieces. I just started playing more on a monette B4L mouthpiece and was surprised to find the L is short for lead! Should I be concerned?
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! Send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly...
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
The impression I got from the article is that these were not old used and worn mouthpieces, but rather new purchased ones - ones that should not have issues with plating wear.


I doubt they just tested the surface of the mouthpieces. They would have cut into the mouthpieces and tested the brass itself.

I think this is a non-issue. Unless you gnaw on your mouthpiece every day, the minuscule amount of lead that is in (some) brass alloys isn't going to go leaping into your body. People handle bullets and fishing weights composed of pure lead every day. And only some of them are (slightly) retarded.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjl wrote:
They purposefully don’t tell you how they test. They just scream LEAD so everyone will panic and they can hopefully make a bunch of money with their lawsuits “for the people.”

Did you read their bios? Social worker, organizer, political ecologist???

One of the worst advances science has ever made is the ability to measure parts per billion.

People need to worry about the things that will kill them, like using your phone while driving, drugs, drinking to excess, etc.

Next they will find traces of Roundup in valve oil.

Sorry, I just don’t believe this is a real threat.

— Joe


This.
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