Is it just my impression.....

[Brad361]

......or do we seem to be seeing a more than usual number of young players / new members here asking questions here that should be addressed by a private teacher?

I realize that I’m one of those guys (not the only one though) who constantly tell people to get a teacher, but is it the fact that young people today (man does THAT make me sound like Methusaleh!) are very focused on the internet, sometimes trying to use forums as a replacement for studying with a qualified teacher?

I really don’t mean to discourage any younger player, and I do think that if an internet forum like TH had been available when I was a kid I would have been here probably asking a lot of questions, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But are a lot of kids using TH as a replacement for a teacher?

To you young new members: you definitely can learn a lot here, don’t bail on this place because of comments like mine, but consider getting a teacher in ADDITION to asking questions here.

Brad
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[LSOfanboy]

Hi Brad,

Yes, I think your observation is correct.

For me personally, I don't have a problem with people asking questions to this site (whether or not they have a private teacher) but what does wind me up is the number of very low-level questions that are asked by new members which have been answered many times before in previous threads.

It would be nice to think new members might actually search the forums for answers to their questions, before starting a new thread to ask the same old mouthpiece/technique/transposition question that has been discussed ad nauseam already.

All the best

[iiipopes]

Yes, the conventional answer is to get a private teacher. But...the small town I grew up in had a lot of students in band whose parents could barely afford the horn, much less the ongoing private lessons. So this forum does have a place, so long as we all recognize the limits of virtual advice, including STOP recommending your favorite mouthpiece to a student who has not developed the embouchure and does not have the physical maturity of stature to handle it.
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[hose]

Ideally, much of our advise should come after hearing/seeing someone live. My impression is the odds of getting advise here may be about as good as picking an "in person" private teacher. There are plenty of music "teachers" that shouldn't be teaching or giving advise to anyone. Some teachers are great, some are just OK and some are- - - - Same as the written advise here.
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[Richard III]

Plus there is the millennial factor. I used to teach a different subject matter and we had to go through additional training to learn how to deal with them. It had to do with problem solving and the inability to do so on their own. Contrast that with much earlier generation where you gave them a problem and they came back with a solution all on their own. Those were the innovators who became the teachers we remember and revere today.

Then the codification of knowledge became popular and taught in colleges. That led to the homogenization of education and the loss of mentoring. I know. Too much soap box.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
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[JayKosta]

Maybe I didn't have 'good teachers' when I had private lessons (or maybe I was just a poor student), but I can't recall much actual 'teaching' being done. It was mostly just assigning new pieces out of Arban's and comments about what could be improved - but little about what to DO to accomplish improvement. And the lessons were held at Cleveland Institute of Music - so I assume the teacher was on the staff, but I don't think I ever knew the details, and don't recall the name.

A good teacher should know and be able to explain the mechanics of playing and equipment. Not just 'this works for me' - but the entire set of 'basics'.
Saying things such as -

play in tune
have a good sound
be more flexible / relaxed

is not teaching, it's good advise without the follow-on instruction about 'what to DO' to achieve those things.

A teacher should primarily be an INSTRUCTOR who can quickly detect problems and provide knowledgeable solutions.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[mafields627]

Out of all the band students in the US, how many actually have access to a quality teacher? By access I mean location and/or finances. I think the number probably isn't that high.

Also, our music ed programs need to take a long hard and hard look at the trumpet portion of brass methods. As I listen to concerts at our state MEA convention, judge all-state auditions, etc., I find that the trumpet sections are consistently weaker than other parts of the band. What is missing in pre-service pedagogy and what's missing in the instruction of our students?
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--Matt--

No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

[JayKosta]

[Anthony Miller]

I would agree in the main but even I, as a user of a lot of forums over the years, find the search function in this site is pretty ropey!
Often the best way is to use Google and the TH answer usually appears.

[DaveH]

I think that the Internet and the passage of time have changed just about everything.

I am older, so my opinions are probably affected by that, but I think that learning to play trumpet well needs to be done under the guidance of private lessons. I don't regard it as a "self taught" or "do it yourself" activity if one wants to reach a high level of ability. It is also very time consuming and will be a life long endeavor, requiring much patience, dedication, and commitment - something else that is often not realized or expected.

There may be some exceptions who rise to excellence that have not had the benefit of lessons, but I think those are probably exceptions rather than the norm.

However, maybe lessons are not so much needed if the goal is simply to play well enough to play in the school band for fun or as a social activity with no long term intentions or goals beyond school.

I remember back long ago when I was in high school, most students did not take lessons. Only a small number of serious players were taking lessons. Most students learned to play well enough in school and with some at home practice to play in the band. The technical demands of the music involved were rather limited. Most of the marching band and even concert band music was playable by such players.

I think it depends on the goals and intentions of the player, and the level of playing skill desired and expected. What are the goals? What level of ability is aspired to? How serious are the intentions and future aspirations? What is the reason(s) for wanting to play this instrument?

Of course, a good teacher is needed. I had a good teacher. Direct benefits from lessons for me were the guidance provided in what to practice, the monitoring of my development, the discipline of regular, daily practice, and especially a teacher would would play with me and for me to model good tone and that I could imitate.

[starkadder]

Actually, it is my impression that we seem to be seeing a more than usual number of comeback players here asking questions here that should be addressed by a private teacher.

To you comeback new members: you definitely can learn a lot here, don’t bail on this place because of comments like mine, but consider getting a teacher in ADDITION to asking questions here.

[kehaulani]

I don't doubt that "younger" generations are impatient and, as part of that, rely too much on the internet for more instant gratification than spending laborious hours in the woodshed under the guidance of a qualified instructor. But, at the same time, I don't see listening to any private teacher as the default solution. I say this out of personal experience.

I had a secondary school teacher who really held me back. When, in utter desperation, I switched teachers, my playing then took off. Again, later in college, I had a well meaning teacher who was just off the mark. Finding ways to compensate for his instruction years later showed me how he missed the boat.

So a default recommendation might not be "get a teacher" but "get a qualified teacher with a record of success". And it would be nice to show by a sticky, link or personal information, what a qualified teacher is.
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[starkadder]

I brace myself every time there is a thread on this forum making generalizations about "young people these days". It is followed by grumpy-old-man-thing-were-better-when-I-was-young-hey-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn comments.

A humble proposal -- write your responses remembering the following:

- Kids today are better than when I was young, because my generation was responsible for raising them and we did a good job. They are our future.
- Kids struggle with the things I had to struggle with, like my own ignorance and inexperience, coming to terms with my ego, deciding what to do with my life, and whether Donna likes me the way I like her.
- Music is good for young people even if they are not very good at it, were given a lousy instrument, play in an under-funded school band, and never had a private teacher. You are on this forum because when you were young you were given more encouragement than that quiet pimply kid at the bottom of the third section of the second band.
- Asking questions is a good way to learn

[Richard III]

Deleted.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[mafields627]

[deleted_user_02066fd]

I had three private teachers in high school. All were very fine players but didn't help me in the things I needed most. I had some mechanical flaws that limited me. When I would ask questions I would get vague answers. After high school I hooked up with a guy who was a disciple of Carmine Caruso. He played French Horn. Most of my technical problems improved a great deal. I went to Carmine as well for about 18 months.
One thing that really helped me was a brief period with Jerry Callet. As a beginner I played with my tongue through my teeth. I was able to comfortably play to a high e flat by 8th grade. One of my teachers noticed this and told me it was a no no. I never played as well tonguing behind my top teeth. Jerry got me playing the way I did as a kid. With a little work I was playing a good solid g over high c and sometimes higher. He taught me to work smarter, not harder. Some of Jerry's philosophies can be a bit strange but he helped me. It was a case of finding the right teacher in my case.

[Speed]

I think it boils down to a lack of awareness and access.

In small town America, "private teacher" almost universally means a piano teacher, or possibly a guitar teacher. Most parents assume that the band director is teaching everything necessary to the student. It never crosses their minds that there is such a thing as a private teacher for trumpet players. I've been playing trumpet for well over 50 years and only in the last few years did I become aware that there were people out there teaching private trumpet lessons. Piano lessons? Guitar lessons? Drum lessons? Sure, but one-on-one trumpet lessons? I was just never aware that they were available, outside the context of music majors in college whose professors gave them one-on-one sessions.

Also, you have to live in or near a city of some size to be within driving distance of a private teacher for in person lessons, at least in most cases. A student in my part of the country would easily have to drive 90 or more miles each way to get to a teacher for in person lessons. I doubt that most young students or their parents have any idea that you can get individual trumpet lessons from competent teachers via the internet.

Hopefully, internet lessons will ultimately eliminate the access problem.

Then there is the expense. How many of these kids are renting a horn because the family cannot afford to buy one? The cost of lessons can be daunting for many families, although they are less expensive than having a kid on a travel baseball, soccer or swim team, and a lot of parents seem willing to struggle to pay for that sort of thing.

Take care,
Marc Speed

[Ed Kennedy]

How about setting up a FAQ section for new members? We could refer young students and comeback players to answers and questions that have already been covered (many times).

[dstdenis]

Anyone with a strong interest in playing trumpet and a desire to improve is going to look for info to help do that. Private lessons, master classes, clinics, going to concerts, reading books, watching YouTube videos, working out of different method books, talking with fellow players, feedback from music directors, contest judges... Internet forums and blogs are just other sources of info.

As always, some of the info is good, some is awful. That goes for all of these sources.

All of my trumpet teachers had something to offer. But I wouldn't have wanted any of them to be my only source of information. I don't think any of them expected that either.

I can't speak for every young poster on TH, but I bet a motivated kid would still want to get private lessons with the best local teacher, especially if they saw that the most successful trumpeters in their school had studied with that teacher.
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[NERO]

I'm a self tought musician, i took lessons for a while, but it's difficult because i have no spare time. internet.... forums and youtube are a great resource, but without a teacher you will always miss the proper learning progression... jumping from a topic to another. internet is much better than nothing. but it will never replace a real teacher.