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My Reports on Kurt Thompson's 16 Wk Range & Endurance Co


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lambchop
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trompette111 wrote:
I never hear you play a tune? Your tone does not sound so good and I have always been told to have focus on tone more than high notes. I do like high notes too though

Yes, I'll try play some lick soon so people can here my regular tone.
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Can I play the Devil's advocate for a moment? I think Kurt's a jerk. But a truth stands by itself regardless of it's source. If this works, why not use it? I think the only issue here is, unless one is getting scammed, is if it works or doesn't.


Because it doesn't work. Also, and I can't believe I have to say this, you shouldn't support misogynists, homophobes, or racists.
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much were you practicing before and what were you doing to improve your range? Please - DO NOT promote Kurt. There's at least 15 other high note methods out there. Greg Spence got me to play better in and above the stave. Jay D Zorn's book is good. Plenty out there, but you pick a known homophobe and sexist bully.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you’ll be interested in hearing from me. I have been through the entirety of Kurt’s 16 week course. I went into it with an open mind. I did not waver from doing exactly what was prescribed.

Pros:

Kurt has an interesting perspective on practice. He practices off the horn with several exercises targeting various areas such as lung capacity, tongue arch, tonguing speed, finger dexterity, etc. This is something I have tried to work into my own practice. So...the course taught me ways to practice.

I knew almost nothing about method books or pedagogy when entering the course, and came out of it knowing I should dive deeper into learning how to improve. I remained curious about trumpet after the course, and with a better understanding of what and what not to do.

I learned you need to play a lot of high notes to gain range.

Some temporary endurance was gained.

Cons:

Although the course was almost entirely range focused, the range I gained was not usable, was not consistent and did not last.

There is no room for practicing other material such as Clarke and Arban during the course. I guess you could, but I did not since the course was already time consuming, and Kurt advised not to (unless you were used to it, which I was not).

Kurt rarely, or never, spoke of being mindful of tension building up. The goal was merely to play higher.

Sound quality was not focused on in any register.

It quickly got old. The exercises seem to overlap, with most being “play scales as high as you can” type things.

The range gained temporarily was just squeaks rather than notes.




I hope this helps. This is just a short summary of my experience. Gotta go...
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other cons:

He's a total *****
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These look like hostage videos.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiredChops wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:


I take issue with the suggestion that you have 'complete control'. When someone starts to make comments like that it invites a more critical response; and in truth, the production across the range is appalling, the sound quality is poor and there is clearly no power to the range either. To achieve 'complete control' requires an awful lot of work, and the assertion (either by you or Kurt) that you now have 'complete control' of the trumpet range up to Eb is unsavoury at best.


Snarky posts and attitudes like this are why I left this forum years ago. Recently I found the video on YouTube and followed it here, but alas the TH is still a hot mess of egos and bravado with little constructive help to offer.

The OP put himself out there to document a journey. I applaud him for that, and I am still curious to see how things turn out.

I leave the rest of you to continue your self righteous fights among yourselves.

Well, I, for one, find nothing snarky about LSOfanboy's comment. His perspective is completely valid and he says nothing disrespectful. He is entitled to his opinion and I appreciate his not mincing words.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiredChops wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:


I take issue with the suggestion that you have 'complete control'. When someone starts to make comments like that it invites a more critical response; and in truth, the production across the range is appalling, the sound quality is poor and there is clearly no power to the range either. To achieve 'complete control' requires an awful lot of work, and the assertion (either by you or Kurt) that you now have 'complete control' of the trumpet range up to Eb is unsavoury at best.


Snarky posts and attitudes like this are why I left this forum years ago. Recently I found the video on YouTube and followed it here, but alas the TH is still a hot mess of egos and bravado with little constructive help to offer.

The OP put himself out there to document a journey. I applaud him for that, and I am still curious to see how things turn out.

I leave the rest of you to continue your self righteous fights among yourselves.



But . . . you're back.
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lambchop
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: week 9 Reply with quote


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lambchop
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: week 10 Reply with quote


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lambchop
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject: week 11 Reply with quote


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lambchop
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: week 12 Reply with quote


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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole series of videos highlights an interesting point about playing trumpet. When players start out almost all of them struggle with increasing range. What is it about high range (however you define that term) that makes it so much more difficult than lower range? Is it an inherent issue or is it an issue of how the student is taught/learns to play trumpet starting out that makes increasing range so difficult?

High range is thought of as a "strength" thing by a lot of players but in my experience it is primarily a "technique" thing, most players who have difficulty with the high register have sufficient strength but apply faulty technique. The question in my mind is "Why does it take so long to learn and apply the technique consistent with producing the high register with the greatest ease/least muscular effort?"

I don't know the answer, which is why I'm throwing the question out there. All players apply some form of technique to produce the notes they produce. Almost all players have difficulty developing range, which is to say that almost all players have difficulty learning and applying the technique necessary to produce the high register. Why is that?

I'm not an exception. It took me a long time to develop range and, as I look back knowing what I know today, I wonder why it took so long. I wonder if/how a student could start out with high range as their natural range. Some students do, but it is very rare. What is it about high range that makes it so difficult for most players?
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kozzicomma
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
High range is thought of as a "strength" thing by a lot of players but in my experience it is primarily a "technique" thing, most players who have difficulty with the high register have sufficient strength but apply faulty technique. The question in my mind is "Why does it take so long to learn and apply the technique consistent with producing the high register with the greatest ease/least muscular effort?"


I can only speak for myself on this, but I wonder the same thing. I just hit my 6th month in my FINAL comeback (I had high chops in high school, college, post college playing in various gigging bands, etc. - double Cish range, would really only say my high G/A were dependable, but could belt out a C most of the time). Took off and on breaks over about 15 years or so. The most frustrating thing for me is there have been times recently, following my teacher's instruction, that something clicks and suddenly i'm soaring over high C, but then next day it's gone. Takes weeks for it to happen again. I'm not terribly worried about it, but it is frustrating to feel the seemingly correct technique occur, but not be able to consistently replicate it. My main focus is on sound, flexibility, fingers, theory, improv, etc., but wouldn't mind having my range back. It'll come... in time, no worries.
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kozzicomma
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to add, in reference to hermokiwi's statement "High range is thought of as a "strength" thing..." :

yeah, for sure. I think it's a counter intuitive kind of activity on the horn. When it happens for real, meaning the correct technique occurs (air usage, embouchure setting, aperture, etc. etc.) it actually feels quite easy. When i was playing lead for my college jazz band, there would actually be times when i was tired, but i knew that i could still play the high notes, because they weren't as hard as some of the other stuff (lower notes with shakes or trills, loud shout sections just up to a C or D, etc.). I consider high notes to be F# and above, even though my actual usable (consistent) top end right now is high C.
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lambchop
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is some strength required and lung pressure. A sign is when I could not hold a high note and it would pop down to a lower partial. I think I had developed sufficient lung pressure which proved out in the pressure tests, although one might need more for loud extreme high register notes. Now I believe I have sufficient strength but it is boiling down to the technique as you mention. One problem is my lips seemed to change a bit with the improved strength which can change the ability to develop the technique. The last lesson we determined I was tending to overblow when trying the high notes, and looked at tongue arch again.
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lambchop
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
... but in my experience it is primarily a "technique" thing, most players who have difficulty with the high register have sufficient strength but apply faulty technique. The question in my mind is "Why does it take so long to learn and apply the technique consistent with producing the high register with the greatest ease/least muscular effort?" ...

-----------------------------------------------
Several likely causes -
1) Takes time and practice to develop the needed strength, muscle control, and coordination.
2) There doesn't appear to be technique(s) both:
a) explainable (teachable) by someone who knows the technique.
b) understandable (learnable) by someone who wants to use the technique.

It seems to be further removed than
"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"

Jay
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lambchop
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: week 14 Reply with quote


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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
High range is thought of as a "strength" thing by a lot of players but in my experience it is primarily a "technique" thing, most players who have difficulty with the high register have sufficient strength but apply faulty technique.

...What is it about high range that makes it so difficult for most players?

I agree that it's more a matter of technique, however it can be deeper than that. For me personally for a very long time I struggled with the mouthpiece never really feeling like it fit on my lips, so I felt handicapped in everything to do with playing. It was obvious other people I knew didn't have these same struggles, it just worked for them, they of course couldn't tell you why, their physical tools were just more conducive to it than mine.

Over a very long time I learned how to make the mouthpiece feel more in the pocket. I also altered my teeth which by itself made a difference, and also experimented with various manipulations of the lips, horn angle, mouth cavity and of course different mouthpieces.

Things just fit better for some people. But then again, there's someone like Doc Severinsen. He had a very natural embouchure, was winning contests at a young age, became an in-demand working professional player - very technically proficient, fantastic sound, excellent reader etc., the one thing that eluded him for a long time was a strong extreme high register, natural chops notwithstanding. Over time he found the knack. Changed the horn angle, altered the way he addressed the mouthpiece, I'm sure made various internal adjustments. All probably subtle, and not things he could probably easily describe but that made a difference. From the recorded evidence I've heard, Doc in the 40's - 50's was a consistent F - G player, sometime in the 60's he developed a double C and beyond.

Maynard on the other hand with an off-center placement and somewhat oddball unconventional embouchure was knocking out dub-C's in his teens basically until the day he died.
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