• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

How many people can actually play above high C?


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Reveille
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pelirrojo173
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: How many people can actually play above high C? Reply with quote

I sure can't. I can slur my way up to a weak DHC on a good day, but I sound like crap, can't articulate, and it's better off if I just avoid playing up there. I can only sound good up to a Bb or maybe a B natural below High C.

I've played with many a professional trumpeter, and many a serious amature, and I've never run into anybody who could sound good above a high E. My current teacher aside anyways, I've never once in my entire life met anybody who could play well above E. Actually that's not true, I did meet Maynard once, I think he sounds pretty good up there! . I've also met a lot of the big-name guys and of course they can play up there.... But I'm mostly talking about every-day folks and not Phil Smith or Wynton.

I've met some high schoolers who could screech out DHCs but they sounded awful up there, had no middle/low register, over-all played like trash and probably always will.

How many people can sound good above high E? How many people can double tongue a DHC? How many people can even double tongue a high E? I know I can't, and I bet most people can't either.

Am I the only one who gets fed up with kids coming on here and saying "I can usually nail down a G above High C every time"?

Can you do it and sound like Wayne? I think not. Can you do it after a 3 hour rehearsal? Doubtful. Can you play it once staccato at at fff after 75 measures of rest? Didn't think so. Can you even hit it reliably? 75% of the time? more than half the time?

Arrrrrrr! It just steams my clams when people come on here and claim to have outrageous range. I would bet the vast majority of them sound like crap up there, if they can get up there at all.

I guess I shouldn't let it bother me since this is, after all, the internet. I just always get down on my own piddly range (which really is only up to Bb below high C, if I want to sound good or have any hope of articulating), and I know that most of the people claiming DHCs in middle school are full of you-know-what

I've met a lot of people who make their living playing trumpet who couldn't sound very good above high D or E. Sure, they can play up to B or C, but they don't claim to "own a DHC", because they know they don't sound good up there.

I know people definitely do exist who can play up there and do it well, but I think the number who can sound like Wayne or Maynard up there is staggeringly small.

Am I the only one who gets annoyed by this or does everybody else just ignore it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
KenH
Regular Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've been playing lead alot for the past 2 years, and I have a consistent and reliable high D. About half the time of the week I have a solid E. That is enough for Sammy Nestico charts and I'm not really worrying about getting higher than that, because I don't really need it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brem
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 620
Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My goal is to get a consistent High E.

I'm a comeback player from a 5 year hiatus. 20 years playing since high school.

If you can hit a double high C, that's a good start, but that's not the end.
_________________
Martin Breton
Yamaha YTR-8335RGS - Bach 5C
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975)
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP
Getzen Eterna 940
Conn Connquest 20A Cornet 1954
Yamaha YCR-2330S Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bilboinsa
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 3378
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The highest I have to "play" is a high F on a Santana chart, "Everybody's Everything". Luck for me, it is a "shoot at it" note. That is, a few notes are played at the top of the staff--GGFF#G, then a big blow up to the high F. I can get it pretty well if the song is in the first set. Fatigue makes it harder. I couldn't softly play that high with control I don't think.
_________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
1970 B&H Regent
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
http://www.myspace.com/schilkeb2
Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
swthiel
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 3943
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I consider the top of my usable range to be a high D (two ledger lines). I can usually get notes that are a bit higher, but they're not consistent, and they usually don't sound good enough that I'd want to be associated with them.

On the other hand, the lead player in the strongest of the bands in which I play has a beautiful upper register. I really don't know where he tops out, but his playing sings up to at least an F (three ledger lines) -- gorgeous sound, power when he wants it, etc.

That said, I am skeptical of some of the range claims here, but such is life.
_________________
Steve Thiel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
pelirrojo173
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I get more worked up over it than I should. I was just feeling particularly range-deprived today - played lead in a concert that included Promenade, Baba Yaga and Kiev from Pictures, 1812, parade of the wooden soldiers, and a bunch of other stuff that was kind of a stretch for me, and then to top if off I had a 2 hour rehearsal afterwards!

My chops aren't really up to a day like that yet, and then I come back battered and broken and read about high school kids playing DHCs all day with ease.... I dunno. I've cooled off now, I'm not usually as angry as my original post sounds

That's sweet Swithiel - I'd love to hear him. Is he a professional or a hobbyist?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8589
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around here we have an incredible amount of talent from all the military bases (AF Academy, various AF and Army bases). I have heard a lot of trumpeters who can play solidly and musically to high G (over high C) and beyond. My teacher has a pretty solid double C but has rarely used it in his orchestral job (he did perform the Brandburg three days in a row last spring). I have squeaked out triples, and have a decent performance range to high F/G; I play a high F to finish off a two-hour show we're working on. I think it's pretty solid, and the conductor and my section mates say it sounds good, but who knows? I'm afraid to record it... And, I hope there are no pro players in the audience, as I know I'm not up to that standard.

It's been almost thirty years since I played professionally, and I no longer have the chops to play for 3 - 4 hours straight. I will note that playing a two-hour band rehearsal is generally easier for me than the 2 - 3 hour orchestra rehearsals. Somehow, even though the notes are lower, and there are often fewer of them, the precision playing required for everything (pitch, sound, style, timing, dynamics, etc.) and long passages with no break make orchestral playing much harder for me than the big band type gigs I am also doing now and then. Not to mention the transposition aspect, all those quiet high entrances, and very exposed solos. Playing your gig today would be a stretch for me now (though I love playing the Promenade big and full -- just don't miss! ) I have to work up to this time of year, when I have several long performances in a row, sometimes on the same day ('tis the season).

I am pretty certain that, even without the endurance and technique I had "back then", I am by and large a better (more musical) player now. I have "played" double Cs in performances, but my current F/G performance range sounds better (more relaxed, fuller sound). I think. I'm hoping it's maturity, but more likely it's just senility...

Odds are there are a few DHC HS kids out there. But, my experience (my own, my students, and what I've heard at state competitions and such) says the ones who really "own" anything over a high C are rare. And, a couple I've met and played with folded under orchestral pressure despite being able to nail it in their school wind and jazz bands. Not sure why, probably a mental thing.

OTOH, every time I go to a trumpet fest or ITG conference and hear what the college kids are doing, I want to just give up. - Don
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 10857
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thirty years ago I had a solid range up to high F. Never could get above it in a playable manner.

There were times where I ran out of lip and would sing the high D through F through my horn. Believe it or not it sounded like a trumpet and nobody knew for years. My vocal range covered from E below the bass clef to high F in falsetto. Without falstetto I have an E to C in the treble cleff.

Anyway one day someone in the college Jazz band caught on and tried it himself. The director heard and identified it immediately and he never tried it again.

I am playing a gig on the weekend of the 15th with a pro trumpet player who posts here and he has a solid range up to at least double C. Good tone all the way up and an extremely solid player all around.

As a combacker I don't consider anything over high C to be reliable at this time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
davidrudolf
Regular Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:

There were times where I ran out of lip and would sing the high D through F through my horn. Believe it or not it sounded like a trumpet and nobody knew for years.


You crafty SOG. I've got to try that one... too bad I my voice has barely more than an octave of range.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1720
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the luxury (or punishment, depending on your POV) of living in Denton, TX for the last twenty-one years. There are nine lab bands at UNT, and you generally have to go down to about the 6th or 7th band to not hear a lead player with a consistent high A that will break glass--although the lead player from last year's 8:00 band has a double high D that's as clean as anything.

Yes, lots of people can really play above high C. I'm not one of them. I can visit up there but I haven't built a home yet.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge piccolo trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lh
Claude Gordon Forum Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3137
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find my range to be most often challenged when....

1) I am sightreading difficult rhythmic or intervallic parts (harder to decipher rather than harder to execute),

OR...

2) I am transposing to or from uncomfortable keys at sight.

Substantially increased cognitive load creeps into my playing to the tune of about a Major 2nd or a minor 3rd off the top end. I'm figuring that if I can improve my sightreading and transposition skills, my range will increase.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bilboinsa
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 3378
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
I've had the luxury (or punishment, depending on your POV) of living in Denton, TX for the last twenty-one years....

My wife's uncle taught accounting at NTSU for many years. He just moved to Corsicana--now we don't get to/ have to visit Denton anymore!

I think sounding musical up that high is very, very difficult. Everyone knows that Roger Ingram has super chops. He is a tremendous player. However, a few months back I snagged a lesson with him when he came through on Connick's tour. That afternoon when he played "up there" in a small 10' x20' room, it did not sound musical to me at all. In fact, and maybe I'm part dog (my wife has thought that for years), but when he really got going, it was downright painful to hear--although awe inspiring at the same time (kinda like attending your first F1 race and hearing those engines). However, that night he played those notes and more, all set in their proper context--huge swing music--and the "musicality" of it was phenomenal.
_________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
1970 B&H Regent
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
http://www.myspace.com/schilkeb2
Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1720
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lh wrote:
I find my range to be most often challenged when....

1) I am sightreading difficult rhythmic or intervallic parts (harder to decipher rather than harder to execute),

OR...

2) I am transposing to or from uncomfortable keys at sight.

Substantially increased cognitive load creeps into my playing to the tune of about a Major 2nd or a minor 3rd off the top end. I'm figuring that if I can improve my sightreading and transposition skills, my range will increase.

Dave


A book for transposition that I heartily recommend is Vingt-Quatre Vocalises (24 Vocalises) by Borgdoni. It's published by LeDuc. It consists of etudes that suddenly change the key of the trumpet that it's written for and the player has to shift gears immediately to make the etude still work. It covers all of the trumpets--Bb,C,D,Eb,E,F,G, and A. I went through the whole book once on Bb trumpet, then again on C trumpet and since then have never had a problem transposing on the fly.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge piccolo trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3859

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pellirrojo173,

IMHO, and may I repeat, IMHO, I think that many of the claims to super range on this forum are people "thumping their chests" publicly, but really are fantasizing behind the privacy of their computers.

I agree that strong, reliable, musical, accurate, consistent, etc, upper register - read that as above D or E - is a more of an exception than a rule. Yes, there are some players who can do it; you have listed a couple of them, but everyone knows their names and they are world class professionals who again, do not represent the majority of those who pick up the horn and claim to be trumpet players.

The range that I can play with reasonable confidence and pretty much "own" at this time is to about F above high C. I will never be a killer player in the high registerand I am definitely not a lead player. But, I think that with a solid F or so above high C, then the lower range of the horn is much more effortless and smooth. Kind of like a car with more horsepower than it needs to run at cruising speeds. So, I consider what extra range I have above high C to be like insurance for the register I do play in.

If I find that as time goes by, I can get another note or so, that will be cool, but it's not big deal to me if I don't. And, I will not ever be in a situation where it will matter.

My range has actually improved as I have gotten older. The causes seem to be a smaller mouthpiece (3C instead of 1 1/4C), and a more efficient and focused embouchure with lips set more or less together. I think I have been able to adjust my physical set-up to be more conducive to playing above high C than in the past.

I do agree with pretty much everything your post...


Last edited by DaveH on Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3859

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:

Odds are there are a few DHC HS kids out there. But, my experience (my own, my students, and what I've heard at state competitions and such) says the ones who really "own" anything over a high C are rare. And, a couple I've met and played with folded under orchestral pressure despite being able to nail it in their school wind and jazz bands. Not sure why, probably a mental thing.

OTOH, every time I go to a trumpet fest or ITG conference and hear what the college kids are doing, I want to just give up. - Don


I agree with you, Don. I think someone might occasionally "hit" a testosterone filled note if enough adrenaline is pumping, but when it comes down situations requiring full control and great sound, or shall we say of lack of a better way to name it, a "Bergeron or Vizzutti sound and control," they ain't got it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3086
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is uncommon.

No, it doesn't have to BE uncommon.

A lot of teenagers on TH are telling the truth. I've heard many of them play. Further, I've had many teenage students who had solid high G's, and higher.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
pelirrojo173
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do agree with pretty much everything your post...


I'm glad. I was pretty peeved when I wrote that so I might have been a bit more truthful about how I feel than I should have been

At my school we just got a freshman trumpet player who was lead in the All-Eastern concert band thing, and he's only got a reliable range up to around a D or so, and even that's a bit shaky.... And presumably he was one of the best high school trumpet players in the country if he landed a spot like that. Heck, even most of the pros I've met can't play up there.

I just keep hearing about these mystical trumpeters at schools everywhere who can scream like crazy, but in all my years (admittedly I don't have many years though ) I have yet to meet one. I'm sure they do exist - I mean, somebody's gotta do it since you hear scream trumpet everywhere - but I'm just generally very skeptical since I've met many 1st class players who can't do it.

I'm also skeptical because this is the internet: where men are women, women are children, and children are the FBI. And where middle schooler have DHCs'

Maybe I'm just bitter. Who knows
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Tyler Williams
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 1112
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to say my proficiency in the high range is fairly decent. I have been working on clean articulation in that range and I have it where I want it: to articulate cleanly up to fourth ledger line G. But I can't really scream. My range is somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes I can hit the DHC's. Many times (most of the time that is) I don't. I look at the high range like they're home runs. You're not always going to hit them. That's the way it is for me. Now would I like to play up there proficiently and consistently? Yes. But there are plenty of people who can't play up there but they're still employed. So that tells me range doesn't matter as long as I can still play the part.
_________________
GET OUTTA HERE!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1720
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were two screamers in my high school back in the early 70's, first and second chair. The first guy had a reliable G, good technique overall, and good endurance; the second had a solid A, even after halftime, and often a good double C, a huge sound, marvelous technique, and played great lead on a Bach 1/4 C. He was second chair because the band director didn't like him or his attitude. The first guy got a music scholarship to a reputable school, sat first chair as a freshman, but only lasted one year as a music major and became a career police officer, eventually appearing in a "Cops" episode. The second guy, who was more talented overall and could have gone on to a solid professional playing career with a little bit of self-discipline, went to jail right after high school and became a career criminal.

To quote Douglas Adams at the end of "So Long and Thanks for All the Fish":
There was a point to all this but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind...
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge piccolo trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3859

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah...you're not bitter...you're just gaining wisdom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Reveille All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group