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What Are Pedal Tones??



 
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: What Are Pedal Tones?? Reply with quote

I see this term thrown about quite a bit and I'm not quite sure what it is referring to. I seem to use the term in a different context... sooo....

Can someone explain what "pedal tone's" are here in 'trumpetland'???

Thanks!
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: What Are Pedal Tones?? Reply with quote

mrhappy wrote:
I see this term thrown about quite a bit and I'm not quite sure what it is referring to. I seem to use the term in a different context... sooo....

Can someone explain what "pedal tone's" are here in 'trumpetland'???

Thanks!


I like to think that the very name is derived from the organ (grinder´s swing) department; lowest tone (E??) done by putting a foot (latin pedalis,pedis=foot) onto the lever that regulates the pipe in question.
On the trumpet I would say that we have a number of pedals; first pedal C one octave below the C just below the staff; how to play? Play down from that C, when you arrive at F# you will have to, sort of, shape your mouth, listen carefully in order to be in tune, use the same fingers eventually arriving at pedal C 1. Takes a while to sort out, "phony tones" (not to say fake). If you practice this, relaxing your chops you might be able to play pedal C 2, two octaves below our C of departure. Used in the BE method and obtainable by a special way of arranging your lips, bottom lip below (!) the rim, top lip then relaxed; with some practice you can play down to F"!
With a lot of practice I´ve now arrived at pedal C number 3.
Why? Relaxes my chops in an amazing way, also making them more flexible - going straight from pedal C number two to high C!
However pedals seem to be somewhat controversial, or at least questioned. For me very beneficial.
This was my version of the pedal tale... A lot is written here on the forum.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do those 'pedal tones' actually have resonance IN the trumpet, similar to notes in the 'regular' playing range? Do they have a projection to a listener 50 feet away?

Or are they just sounds that the player is sort of 'pushing thru' the trumpet by being able to 'flap his lip' slow and steady enough to send some sound into the instrument?

Jay
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedals tones are from F below low C on down.
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so were basically talking about the 'ILLEGAL' notes below the normal range of the trumpet. If that's the case then I've been experimenting with this sort of thing a bit already. Thanks Seymor.
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Do those 'pedal tones' actually have resonance IN the trumpet

On my Flugelhorn that C-1 has some pretty crazy resonance! Does a fairly good trombone impression!!

Do they have a projection to a listener 50 feet away?

Not sure here, although my low F# probably doesn't have much projection either! I'd bet it would project just fine into a microphone though.

Jay

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kalijah
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is exactly one pedal resonance for the open instrument. It is weaker and broader than the normal harmonic resonances. It is limited in efficiency as compared to more playable resonances. It is impractical for performance. The pedal resonance center is about an A. (G2 concert) around 98 Hz.
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr. happy

have to like that handle. play the valve progression low C down to the lowest note F#. the next fingering is the same as for the F above low C, 1st valve.
continue the progression and play F below low C using valve 1, by ear and with loosened chop tension.
that's the start of farting out the pedal register.
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuck in ny wrote:
the next fingering is the same as for the F above low C, 1st valve.


That sub 'F' has been giving me problems so I've just been lipping down the 'F#'... below that they seem to bark out just fine!
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrhappy wrote:
chuck in ny wrote:
the next fingering is the same as for the F above low C, 1st valve.


That sub 'F' has been giving me problems so I've just been lipping down the 'F#'... below that they seem to bark out just fine!


The first pedal register are notes from F below low C on down through D flat. The notes from F below low C on down through D flat are not on the the horn. You have to make them. Since these notes have the feel of bending a note flat, the correct way to develop the right "feel" is to bend tones flat. Play a low C and slur down to B natural, second valve. This establishes the pitch. Now play the same two notes without using any valves for B. (Bend C flat a half step.) Now continue down with the same idea, first using valves to establish the pitch, then bending the notes flat, using no valves. When you get down to low G, you will have played it as though it were a pedal tone. Now start on low B natural and continue down through low F sharp in the same manner. When you play low F sharp with the second valve, you will be playing it as though it were a pedal tone. Start on low B flat next, and continues down to pedal F. You will notice that the last two notes (B flat to F) are different in that there are no valve changes. To establish the pitch, we play an octave above first. You will also notice that pedal F is nothing more than a low B flat bent flat a perfect fourth, pedal E is a low A bent four notes flat, and so on. Play the octave above first to determine the pitch, then bend the notes into the pedals.

The second pedal register, Pedal C (C below low C) down to pedal F sharp. These notes, being the fundamentals of the harmonic series of overtones, are on the horn. Thus they feel totally different from those of the first register. Your first pedal C will generally "pop out," but it will be extremely flat -- as much as 4 or 5 notes. Do not let this concern you, for this is the correct feel and approach. To try and play this note in tune at first would be the wrong approach. let it hang flat for a long time, weeks and even months, working for a big sound and vibration. It will automatically work itself up to pitch as you develop.

The third register, pedal F below pedal C on down are very easy. They are in tune, and it is a matter of time and practice in developing the big vibration necessary to play them.

How to practice pedals:

Do not use different fingerings for the pedals. (low G 1-3, and low F sharp 1-2-3)
Do not roll your lips out in any way.
Do not push the lips forward in trying to produce a "loose" vibration.
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trUMBet67
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
There is exactly one pedal resonance for the open instrument. It is weaker and broader than the normal harmonic resonances. It is limited in efficiency as compared to more playable resonances. It is impractical for performance. The pedal resonance center is about an A. (G2 concert) around 98 Hz.


This.
And obviously there is a gap from low F# and this "A".
Every "pedal" sound could be "lipped" with any valve combination, so the conventional fingering is better for memory, and because the weak resonance (but this is instrument dependent) this doesen't impact the sound so much. The trumpet sounds as a "megaphone".

Edit: if you try to play them on piccolo you have a simpler way to experiment these things.
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