• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Do We Need To Make The Lips Vibrate When We Play?


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 2694
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
Quote:
Nick is correct. The embouchure of brass playing is really nothing more than an application of Bernoulli's principle.


It has nothing to do with the Bernoulli principle. The cause of tone, that is.

The lip aperture uses the strong resonance of the instrument to complete the system. Since the acoustic impedance of the instrument is MUCH greater than that of the mouthpiece (AND the lead pipe) one can generate MUCH more sound for a given blowing effort.

The vibrating portion of the lip has mass (portion allowed to vibrate) and elasticity. We control these by the muscles that control the lips to vary the pitch played.

I start beginners on the instrument. Not the mp. Not the lead pipe. Beginners need to feel the highest resonance and acoustic impedance available and begin THERE.

You don't teach one to ride a bicycle by introducing them to a unicycle first.

Even then progress can be ruined by introducing mp buzzing too soon.
_________________
Darryl Jones

Callicchio 1s2
Benge 3x+ (Burbank)
Yamaha YHF631 Flugelhorn
MP: stock Marcinkiewicz 9 or 10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tworx1957
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Location: Rockwall, Texas (Dallas)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not on my. Not on leadpipe.

You had me scratching my head there for a second because I didn’t recall saying anything about the Bernoulli principle. Then I realized that you were referring to someone else’s post.

Yes, I agree with what you’re saying. Starting beginners out on the horn instead of the mouthpiece works and I have done that, especially before having access to lead pipes.

The only problem I have with it is that you’re working with a youngster who has never held an instrument to his face before. We tend to take some things for granted at times—like what it must feel like for a beginner to hold something of that size, shape, and weight. Considering all of the other concepts that you want them to do correctly from the very beginning, such as posture, hand position, inhalation, and exhalation, we wind up trying to teach five or six major concepts at the same time. It can be done but it can also be very awkward for the student.

The lead pipe gives them the opportunity to focus on nothing other than breathing and allowing the air to move through the lips. They don’t have to worry about hand position and they certainly don’t get fatigued.

I do agree with you. Starting on anything other than the mouthpiece alone is better.

_________________
Benjamin Davis
Rockwall,TX
www.trumpetworx.com
PT OfficeWorx
469-500-8031
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
veery715
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! That video is perfect! Thanks, Denny (& Billy)
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
TrpM
Regular Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2019
Posts: 13
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
Wow! That video is perfect! Thanks, Denny (& Billy)


+1

If only I would have seen it 35 years ago ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrhappy
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 371
Location: Port Jackson, NY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denny Schreffler wrote:

Billy B → → https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y0uuFa59brVvSCcdo49YT6OeDOSeEq_q/preview?fbclid=IwAR3398ByC5Pw8kyH0DK5V_Cs6gwkxX1e96_lNWP4cLsfSNzwYdmIWQmE7TI


Wow... Billy B is awesome!!!
_________________
MH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Denny Schreffler
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 251
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
Wow! That video is perfect! Thanks, Denny (& Billy)


Over the past few years I've had lessons with Jeanne Pocious, George Rawlin, Jeff Smiley, Clint McLaughlin, Greg Spence, Jim Manley, and have read/watched/listened to a ton of books, videos, presentations, and performances with the result that I have adopted a new type of embouchure.


I was successful with the old embouchure but the new setup gives me the same range and endurance (and a similar sound over most of the horn) without as much work, both in necessary-practice-time and while performing.


It's impossible to separate and recombine what I've learned and been taught as to why the embouchure change has been successful, as I've picked up substantial tips/tricks/techniques from each of the teachers, but, if you're already a player and want to explore the possibility of greater efficiency …


Jeff Smiley, Balanced Embouchure - http://trumpetteacher.net/
Book

Greg Spence, WindWorks (nee, Mystery to Mastery)
https://mysterytomastery.com/
Great, great videos

George Rawlin, AirPlay - http://grawlin.com/index2.html
Great info in marginally produced videos

Walt Johnson -- Double High C in Ten Minutes (it works but apply it intelligently)
Fred Elias -- The Buzz system -- Advanced for 1927 but figure it out for yourself


Daily initial warmup on didgeridoo (search for Clint's opinion of this)


-Denny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tobylou8
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember the name of the school/academy, but it's in Switzerland, I think. Anyway, brass students don't touch an instrument for 2 weeks. They only work on breathing, and "buzzing" with and without the mpc. The thought is for the student to understand the concept of being in control of the sound. I've met players that had no idea how to lip a note into tune. One guy told me his lips never buzzed when he played (of course he was wrong). They had never put 2+2 together. They also played horribly out of tune. They would just constantly pull/push the slide in as they played. It was frustrating for all involved. To prove my point to one player, I played a C scale starting on middle C and continued to high G without using any valves, I just lipped it. It wasn't performance worthy, but he got the point. I can also do the same on my hose trumpet. Mpc buzzing is a fundamental tool to teach the student. Ignoring it does a disservice to the student imo. Bryan Davis has a really informative video on overblowing. It's part of his A-Z series, obviously it's "O" for overblowing. His bottom line has to do with efficiency and that the normal boo-boo of overblowing can actually help in playing.
Link
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Denny Schreffler
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 251
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobylou8 wrote:
... Mpc buzzing is a fundamental tool to teach the student. Ignoring it does a disservice to the student imo.


I know that it’s easy to jump onto a thread and share our point of view without having read and digested previous posts and links within those posts – I do it.

Benny Davis – a new member – has posted his thoughts and experiences about mpc buzzing (vis-à-vis mpc + leadpipe) on this, and at least two, parallel threads and they are really worthwhile for anyone’s consideration. Bill Bergen (on the list) and Greg Spence have had videos posted that demonstrate the efficiency and success of this approach.

I’ve included one of Davis's blog posts and copied one of the paragraphs (The “Master Teacher” Influence) which I’ve set before the longer article.


-Denny

https://www.trumpetworx.com/

https://www.trumpetworx.com/blog-2-2/


The “Master Teacher” Influence

Lee South could possibly be considered one of the “legends” in the Texas band world. He had fantastic high school bands during the 1970’s in Irving, Texas. I had been teaching only a few years when Lee was asked to present a professional development session on starting beginner brass students. During a break, he was asked about starting beginners on the mouthpiece. He told us that he started a trumpet class one year with the premise that he was not going to move on until EVERY student in the class was able to produce a beautiful, vibrant buzz on the mouthpiece. I remember his next statement was, “it turned out to be the weakest trumpet class I ever started.” This made a lasting impression on me.



Starting Beginners – Leadpipe or Mouthpiece?

As a Texas band director for over 30 years, I never felt comfortable with beginning my trumpet students on the mouthpiece. Even though it was a traditional aspect of trumpet pedagogy it simply seemed to have too many “traps” for the beginner student. Yet, learning to first “buzz” the trumpet mouthpiece (only) remains the most common starting point for beginning trumpet students today.

And why not? This is the way trumpet students have been taught since the dawn of time. It was the way that I and many others began. Every year I would see a few students who could produce a buzz the very first time. However, many more struggled. Those who struggled soon started experimenting on their own and trying things to “force” a buzz—most of which were not normal and resulted in a tight, constricted, or forced tone.

Often, it was the very smart kids, the “thinkers,” and the athletes who struggled the most because they instantly picked up on the fact that, “this doesn’t sound right,” and they would do anything and everything to make it happen because they simply didn’t like the feeling of not being able to get it!


The “Master Teacher” Influence

Lee South could possibly be considered one of the “legends” in the Texas band world. He had fantastic high school bands during the 1970’s in Irving, Texas. I had been teaching only a few years when Lee was asked to present a professional development session on starting beginner brass students. During a break, he was asked about starting beginners on the mouthpiece. He told us that he started a trumpet class one year with the premise that he was not going to move on until EVERY student in the class was able to produce a beautiful, vibrant buzz on the mouthpiece. I remember his next statement was, “it turned out to be the weakest trumpet class I ever started.” This made a lasting impression on me.


The “Eureka” Moment

At some point, I discovered that it was easier for beginners to actually produce their first tone if they started on the instrument itself. Virtually every student was immediately more successful and able to achieve a characteristic tone either on the very first try or much quicker than when playing on the mouthpiece alone. The problem then was the instrument itself. As a 5th or 6th grader, they had never held anything of that shape and weight up to their face before. I underestimated what I thought was the simple task of holding the instrument in the correct position, without any movement, and returning it to the exact same place on the student’s face every time, while trying to breath and release the air appropriately, with a properly formed embouchure—all at the same time.

I thought, “I wish I could just remove the leadpipe and have them simply hold the leadpipe without having to worry about the instrument. Then, after they have become comfortable with forming an appropriate embouchure, breathing and releasing the air into the instrument, and allowing the air stream to cause the lip vibrations to create a steady even sound on the leadpipe, then teach them correct hand position and slowly and incrementally transfer their knowledge over to the full instrument.


Not Something New

I soon discovered that this was not a new concept. Trumpet Professor John Harbaugh of Central Washington University, citing data provided by the CWU Department of Physics and a 1973 edition of Scientific American, provides us with a visual demonstration proving that the physical length of the trumpet or cornet mouthpiece is simply too short for a beginning student to develop a standing wave from a steady stream of air. If the resonant frequency of a standard Bb trumpet leadpipe with the length of 32 – 33 cm. is approximately 311 hz, or a concert Eb when played on the instrument, the resonant frequency of a trumpet mouthpiece alone would be high enough to be considered impossible for a student to produce. I quickly learned that although it is not necessary to produce the mouthpiece’s precise resonant frequency in order to acquire a lip vibration on the mouthpiece alone, the physical characteristics of the mouthpiece will still require the student to do something that makes (or forces) the lips to vibrate. There’s no other way around acknowledging the fact that this involves a level of excess tension. This concept was a fundamental component in the teaching of William “Bill” Adam (1917-2013), Professor Emeritus at the University of Indiana.

Video 1: https://youtu.be/MVs2G60-ilo

Video 2: https://youtu.be/paMT6JGEd94?list=RDMVs2G60-ilo

When you place the mouthpiece on the leadpipe, the first issue is that there is now the added element of resistance between the air stream and the wall of the leadpipe, which creates just enough back pressure to help the lips initiate vibrations. The added length of the leadpipe allows the airstream to begin the process of developing an energy wave that travels through the instrument. This energy wave, once reflected back through the instrument by the bell as a standing wave, returns to the mouthpiece and sets the lips into vibrations at a frequency that is sympathetic to that of the standing wave. It is this balance between the lips, air, and the physical characteristics of the instrument that account for the resonant quality of the tone.

This explains why students with what is considered to be a good mouthpiece buzz can ultimately play with a very poor tone quality on the instrument if they have resorted to making the lips vibrate by force or excessive lip tension or air speed.

The leadpipe learning process is aided by the simple fact that, because the instrument is not yet present, the student is allowed to concentrate the entirety of their focus only on breathing, air delivery, and listening for the type or quality of sound they want. They do not have the added job of holding a “cumbersome” shaped object to their face.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tobylou8
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denny Schreffler wrote:
Tobylou8 wrote:
... Mpc buzzing is a fundamental tool to teach the student. Ignoring it does a disservice to the student imo.


I know that it’s easy to jump onto a thread and share our point of view without having read and digested previous posts and links within those posts – I do it.

Benny Davis – a new member – has posted his thoughts and experiences about mpc buzzing (vis-à-vis mpc + leadpipe) on this, and at least two, parallel threads and they are really worthwhile for anyone’s consideration. Bill Bergen (on the list) and Greg Spence have had videos posted that demonstrate the efficiency and success of this approach.

I’ve included one of Davis's blog posts and copied one of the paragraphs (The “Master Teacher” Influence) which I’ve set before the longer article.


-Denny

https://www.trumpetworx.com/

https://www.trumpetworx.com/blog-2-2/


The “Master Teacher” Influence

Lee South could possibly be considered one of the “legends” in the Texas band world. He had fantastic high school bands during the 1970’s in Irving, Texas. I had been teaching only a few years when Lee was asked to present a professional development session on starting beginner brass students. During a break, he was asked about starting beginners on the mouthpiece. He told us that he started a trumpet class one year with the premise that he was not going to move on until EVERY student in the class was able to produce a beautiful, vibrant buzz on the mouthpiece. I remember his next statement was, “it turned out to be the weakest trumpet class I ever started.” This made a lasting impression on me.



Starting Beginners – Leadpipe or Mouthpiece?

As a Texas band director for over 30 years, I never felt comfortable with beginning my trumpet students on the mouthpiece. Even though it was a traditional aspect of trumpet pedagogy it simply seemed to have too many “traps” for the beginner student. Yet, learning to first “buzz” the trumpet mouthpiece (only) remains the most common starting point for beginning trumpet students today.

And why not? This is the way trumpet students have been taught since the dawn of time. It was the way that I and many others began. Every year I would see a few students who could produce a buzz the very first time. However, many more struggled. Those who struggled soon started experimenting on their own and trying things to “force” a buzz—most of which were not normal and resulted in a tight, constricted, or forced tone.

Often, it was the very smart kids, the “thinkers,” and the athletes who struggled the most because they instantly picked up on the fact that, “this doesn’t sound right,” and they would do anything and everything to make it happen because they simply didn’t like the feeling of not being able to get it!


The “Master Teacher” Influence

Lee South could possibly be considered one of the “legends” in the Texas band world. He had fantastic high school bands during the 1970’s in Irving, Texas. I had been teaching only a few years when Lee was asked to present a professional development session on starting beginner brass students. During a break, he was asked about starting beginners on the mouthpiece. He told us that he started a trumpet class one year with the premise that he was not going to move on until EVERY student in the class was able to produce a beautiful, vibrant buzz on the mouthpiece. I remember his next statement was, “it turned out to be the weakest trumpet class I ever started.” This made a lasting impression on me.


The “Eureka” Moment

At some point, I discovered that it was easier for beginners to actually produce their first tone if they started on the instrument itself. Virtually every student was immediately more successful and able to achieve a characteristic tone either on the very first try or much quicker than when playing on the mouthpiece alone. The problem then was the instrument itself. As a 5th or 6th grader, they had never held anything of that shape and weight up to their face before. I underestimated what I thought was the simple task of holding the instrument in the correct position, without any movement, and returning it to the exact same place on the student’s face every time, while trying to breath and release the air appropriately, with a properly formed embouchure—all at the same time.

I thought, “I wish I could just remove the leadpipe and have them simply hold the leadpipe without having to worry about the instrument. Then, after they have become comfortable with forming an appropriate embouchure, breathing and releasing the air into the instrument, and allowing the air stream to cause the lip vibrations to create a steady even sound on the leadpipe, then teach them correct hand position and slowly and incrementally transfer their knowledge over to the full instrument.


Not Something New

I soon discovered that this was not a new concept. Trumpet Professor John Harbaugh of Central Washington University, citing data provided by the CWU Department of Physics and a 1973 edition of Scientific American, provides us with a visual demonstration proving that the physical length of the trumpet or cornet mouthpiece is simply too short for a beginning student to develop a standing wave from a steady stream of air. If the resonant frequency of a standard Bb trumpet leadpipe with the length of 32 – 33 cm. is approximately 311 hz, or a concert Eb when played on the instrument, the resonant frequency of a trumpet mouthpiece alone would be high enough to be considered impossible for a student to produce. I quickly learned that although it is not necessary to produce the mouthpiece’s precise resonant frequency in order to acquire a lip vibration on the mouthpiece alone, the physical characteristics of the mouthpiece will still require the student to do something that makes (or forces) the lips to vibrate. There’s no other way around acknowledging the fact that this involves a level of excess tension. This concept was a fundamental component in the teaching of William “Bill” Adam (1917-2013), Professor Emeritus at the University of Indiana.

Video 1: https://youtu.be/MVs2G60-ilo

Video 2: https://youtu.be/paMT6JGEd94?list=RDMVs2G60-ilo

When you place the mouthpiece on the leadpipe, the first issue is that there is now the added element of resistance between the air stream and the wall of the leadpipe, which creates just enough back pressure to help the lips initiate vibrations. The added length of the leadpipe allows the airstream to begin the process of developing an energy wave that travels through the instrument. This energy wave, once reflected back through the instrument by the bell as a standing wave, returns to the mouthpiece and sets the lips into vibrations at a frequency that is sympathetic to that of the standing wave. It is this balance between the lips, air, and the physical characteristics of the instrument that account for the resonant quality of the tone.

This explains why students with what is considered to be a good mouthpiece buzz can ultimately play with a very poor tone quality on the instrument if they have resorted to making the lips vibrate by force or excessive lip tension or air speed.

The leadpipe learning process is aided by the simple fact that, because the instrument is not yet present, the student is allowed to concentrate the entirety of their focus only on breathing, air delivery, and listening for the type or quality of sound they want. They do not have the added job of holding a “cumbersome” shaped object to their face.
Well, that is a lot to digest. I wouldn't advise holding back an entire class until they all got it. Some will get it faster than others. You can't condemn a teaching method because it may have been misapplied. I don't know where you fall in this discussion because there so much cut and paste, I'm not sure what is your thought versus another. I like Greg Spence, he's a good player (I would have said great but it's overused imo). I can blow in a lead pipe and get no sound because I've learned to manipulate my chops. Did you watch Bryan's video, it's good and touches on the usefulness of mpc buzzing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Denny Schreffler
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 251
Location: Tucson

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobylou8 wrote:
Denny Schreffler wrote:
Tobylou8 wrote:
... Mpc buzzing is a fundamental tool to teach the student. Ignoring it does a disservice to the student imo.


I know that it’s easy to jump onto a thread and share our point of view without having read and digested previous posts and links within those posts – I do it.

Benny Davis – a new member – has posted his thoughts and experiences about mpc buzzing (vis-à-vis mpc + leadpipe)

I’ve included one of Davis's blog posts and copied one of the paragraphs (The “Master Teacher” Influence) which I’ve set before the longer article.

-Denny

https://www.trumpetworx.com/

https://www.trumpetworx.com/blog-2-2/

[/size]
Well, that is a lot to digest. I wouldn't advise holding back an entire class until they all got it. Some will get it faster than others. You can't condemn a teaching method because it may have been misapplied. I don't know where you fall in this discussion because there so much cut and paste, I'm not sure what is your thought versus another. I like Greg Spence, he's a good player (I would have said great but it's overused imo). I can blow in a lead pipe and get no sound because I've learned to manipulate my chops. Did you watch Bryan's video, it's good and touches on the usefulness of mpc buzzing.


I am in the non-buzzing-for-beginners camp and was responding to your statement (opinion) that to not teach mpc buzzing is a disservice to a student.

I watched Bryan's video and there's nothing to argue with if dealing with advanced players, and, he doesn't make any implication that buzzing is the place to start with beginners.

Regarding your statement that it's possible to blow into a leadpipe and not produce a sound -- of course it's possible. It takes some students a few (or several) tries to not over blow into the pipe. Part of my understanding and teaching of the let-the-leadpipe-drive-the-lips practice is to find the gentle, relaxed, natural breath that initiates the sound and then bring that feeling into our trumpet playing.


-Denny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tobylou8
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denny Schreffler wrote:
Tobylou8 wrote:
Denny Schreffler wrote:
Tobylou8 wrote:
... Mpc buzzing is a fundamental tool to teach the student. Ignoring it does a disservice to the student imo.


I know that it’s easy to jump onto a thread and share our point of view without having read and digested previous posts and links within those posts – I do it.

Benny Davis – a new member – has posted his thoughts and experiences about mpc buzzing (vis-à-vis mpc + leadpipe)

I’ve included one of Davis's blog posts and copied one of the paragraphs (The “Master Teacher” Influence) which I’ve set before the longer article.

-Denny

https://www.trumpetworx.com/

https://www.trumpetworx.com/blog-2-2/

[/size]
Well, that is a lot to digest. I wouldn't advise holding back an entire class until they all got it. Some will get it faster than others. You can't condemn a teaching method because it may have been misapplied. I don't know where you fall in this discussion because there so much cut and paste, I'm not sure what is your thought versus another. I like Greg Spence, he's a good player (I would have said great but it's overused imo). I can blow in a lead pipe and get no sound because I've learned to manipulate my chops. Did you watch Bryan's video, it's good and touches on the usefulness of mpc buzzing.


I am in the non-buzzing-for-beginners camp and was responding to your statement (opinion) that to not teach mpc buzzing is a disservice to a student.

I watched Bryan's video and there's nothing to argue with if dealing with advanced players, and, he doesn't make any implication that buzzing is the place to start with beginners.

Regarding your statement that it's possible to blow into a leadpipe and not produce a sound -- of course it's possible. It takes some students a few (or several) tries to not over blow into the pipe. Part of my understanding and teaching of the let-the-leadpipe-drive-the-lips practice is to find the gentle, relaxed, natural breath that initiates the sound and then bring that feeling into our trumpet playing.


-Denny
Well, you could have just said that from the beginning without the cut and paste articles. We will disagree and that's fine. A beginning student needs to know that they are in control of the instrument's sound. When I read a players posts where they are elated that their lips don't have to buzz to play the trumpet and they cite video evidence, I just sigh. If my mpc is in place and it's a mild sigh, there is no buzz. If it's a frustrating sigh, I get a buzz! The player still does not understand that they are in control of the sound they produce. They think it's the horn, the mpc, the gap, the valve oil, slide grease, etc.. I'm all on board with relaxed playing, but too relaxed gets a student no sound at all. There's a thread here where a teacher is having this very issue. No buzz means no sound in the trumpet because no standing wave is created. Relaxed playing for a beginner is way over their heads. It's over the heads of most established players! If the word buzz is tripping you up, maybe oscillation would be the preferred word? Here's another Bryan Davis video just for grins!



Link
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 1053
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has this turned into a discussion about whether a player HAS to be able to physically produce a BUZZ?

I think we all agree that lip vibration is required for playing.
I don't know if there is any actual 'buzz sound' produced when playing - I doubt it.
It's probably wrong for a beginner to believe / attempt to make an actual buzz sound when trying to play a note.
Some beginners might be confused about what they should be trying to do if the first instruction is to 'make a buzz sound'.

The question seems to be about 'what is the best way to teach a beginner how to' -
1) produce the proper embouchure
2) position the mouthpiece
3) do the 'blowing' action
4) make a 'note' sound on the trumpet

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2020_July_6_web.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tobylou8
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Has this turned into a discussion about whether a player HAS to be able to physically produce a BUZZ?

I think we all agree that lip vibration is required for playing.
I don't know if there is any actual 'buzz sound' produced when playing - I doubt it.
It's probably wrong for a beginner to believe / attempt to make an actual buzz sound when trying to play a note.
Some beginners might be confused about what they should be trying to do if the first instruction is to 'make a buzz sound'.

The question seems to be about 'what is the best way to teach a beginner how to' -
1) produce the proper embouchure
2) position the mouthpiece
3) do the 'blowing' action
4) make a 'note' sound on the trumpet

Jay
Probably. And semantics will usually cause otherwise sane people to make condescending statements about those that disagree with their theory of trumpet pedagogy. If you were raised on mpc buzzing, you'll see nothing wrong with it. If you weren't, then the "buzzers" will seem to be unyielding in their belief and uncouth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Pedagogy All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group