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cannot play loud enough in a small acoustic jazz band



 
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sioul
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: cannot play loud enough in a small acoustic jazz band Reply with quote

Hello all Trumpet Players,
I have been learning trumpet for 10 months and was happy with my progress so far. But recently I come to play with my small jazz band (acoustic piano, clarinet , sax, guitar with small amp), where I play electric bass for several year; they kindly let me take a few solo (Black Orpheus, Softly, Blue in Green) and i sometimes swap from bass to trumpet.
The problem is that I am really not loud enough and I cannot hear my self, thus my intonation is awful. I had the feeling to be loud at home.
I surely need more practice but is there any particular advice that you can give me ??


(to take lessons is probably necessary but it is not possible for now ).
My trumpet is a Yamaha 4335 + Bach 3C.

Thank you very much for your help.
(i am french , so please forgive my english)
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a microphone. I used to play split lead in a soul/pop band with 2 singers and a 4 piece horn section. Once the electricians and the drummer had their gear set, there was no way to hear any of the horns unless we were miked.

Do NOT try to play full throttle, you can’t win. My teacher once said to me something along the lines: “I think Tower of Power play a solid mf on stage, not more. The rest comes from the PA.”

I think he may be right.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does the band say?

Is it possible you are loud enough? Or is the band louder than they need to be? Piano can be a very loud instrument. And amped guitars often climb the ladder of decibels without realizing it.

But if you are loud enough and just can't hear yourself, playing into a reflecting surface fixes that easily. I hate the microphone and amplification process because bands just get louder and louder.

In my area, there's a movement with a local musician to have a music festival with mandatory no amps.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! I like the part about the music festival w/o amps!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there's a potential problem here to be aware of as you go along.

First, don't confuse loudness with projection. Projection means tone and concept, not just compensating by blowing your brains out.

Also, you simply may not be at a stage where concentrating on loudness does more harm than good in your advancement. I used to play an Arban flexibility exercise but sustaining each note for as loud and long as you can. It was taught me, BTW, by a former Schilke student. But I was ready for it. I think jumping to something like that could be harmful, especially to your ability to project, if you're not ready for it.

I'm not implying that you're not aware of this, just to mention it if you aren't.
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mrhappy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:

is the band louder than they need to be?


If someone actually needs this question answered... OF COARSE they are!!! Haha!

Try sticking an earplug in one ear. Open ear will still get ambient music and plugged ear will be ALL trumpet, allowing you to adjust intonation, etc.

Might take a little getting used to so play along with some music at home first!
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike a lot of other settings, a jazz group like this should be able to provide background soft enough for any soloist to be able to hear themselves. Play at a comfortable volume and move away from loud players so you can hear. Playing into a reflective surface might also help.
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sioul
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank to all you ,
it appears that i play loud enough but cannot hear myself enough.
I ve tried a bit with some reflective material and it's much better. And I ll stay away from the piano which is quite loud (and my piano player friend maybe is a bit deaf )
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beagle
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing to bear in mind is that when you play the trumpet all the sound is directed away from you. One of the reasons Dizzy liked his upturned bell was that he could hear himself better from the sound reflected off the ceiling.

When you play in your practice room you have no problem hearing yourself but when playing with others in a larger room it is much harder. I used to try to play louder to compensate but my tone and endurance suffered. Play the way you usually do and you will be loud enough.

When one player solos, the other players should respond to the soloists volume level. If you play softly, a good rhythm section should play softer or more sparsely. Chances are however that you are not too soft but are just not used to the ambient noise.
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sst8
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe try some breathing exercises? I don't know if that's exactly the problem but good breathing and proper air usage can really help with your playing. Or if you feel that you aren't loud enough, is it maybe that everyone else is louder than you? However, I wouldn't recommend just going at it because without proper embouchure/air usage (and other technique in general), everything falls apart. There's a difference between blasting and playing loud. So, whatever you do, don't blast; try to achieve the loudness while still maintaining a good sound and intonation.
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