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walldaja
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 71
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 Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: Flugelhorn |
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I find that my opportunity to play a flugelhorn is significantly less than cornet or trumpet. Austin Custom Brass has some "doubler" horns that are fairly reasonable cost wise. I believe the smaller bore horns (0.433ish) have a much better sound than those with trumpet bores (0.460). I personally have a Jupiter 846S that was discussed earlier, they were a little north of $1,100 when I got mine. It is essential that you get one with a third valve slide trigger to deal with intonation issues on C# and Db.
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Dave
Sonare TRC-800, Dennis Wick 1.5C
Blessing Standard, Denis Wick 1.5C
Accent TR959 CDB C tpt Stork XM2 Studio Mstr
Jupiter 846S Flug Schilke 18F
Shires Q30GR T-bone 5 / 4 CL
Yamaha YBL-421G T-bone 2 CL
Jean Baptist Euphonium Stork 4 |
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iiipopes
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Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Intonation. No. I respectfully disagree with all the above. A flugelhorn is not a trumpet. A player of flugelhorn literature is probably not going to have the technical repertoire that requires, say, a trill requiring the 3rd valve alone. My older Couesnon flugelhorn, for which the tone is the standard by which all others are judged: piquant, smokey, inimitable, but not too dark as seems to unfortunately be the current fad, functions in tune with about a 1/2 inch pull and set of the 3rd valve slide, and if required, maybe a slight pull 1/16 of the first valve slide, to be in tune in the lower register. To top that off, mine has evidently had a train wreck at sometime in its life, with the lead pipe replaced, probably off an Eb Couesnon soprano flugel (according to the number stamped into the receiver)! So with the two contemporary to the manufacture of the horn Couesnon mouthpieces I have, with the proper proprietary taper and gap, mine has excellent intonation throughout the range, including above the staff, especially with the preset valve slides.
The summary of this digression: don't be lulled into the fad of darkest tone possible. It may work for solo playing, but will not knit in a section. Don't be lulled into playing a flugel like a trumpet. It needs a little larger volume of air opposed to velocity necessary on trumpet, and a lighter approach. And don't go thinking you automatically have to have all the triggers that are now considered standard on trumpet. Use your chops and your ears to get the tone, as with the wide bell, the slots are wide and the player makes the difference, not the horn.
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Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7009
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | I'd like to throw in two possibilities that exist right now, but may not for very long.
Flip Oakes Wild Thing flugelhorn... |
Hey Brian, A few months ago I got to play the silver Flip Oakes flugelhorn you used to own and man, it was nice! The current owner was in town for a wedding and we had a private "trumpet hang" for a couple hours. |
Yes, Tim got a nice horn! Did you like the finger ring and reverse-bend trigger? Those were my additions. The ring has been standard on all Flip's flugelhorns, since then. I don't know if he ever got Troy to make the triggers with that bend. I did it at home. I think there are 4 total.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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walldaja
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Here's something to think of. I have a trumpet shank from Dave Harrison (Wedge Mouthpieces) that will accept my flugelhorn upper part. Really colors the trumpet nicely. I actually have two shanks for this upper--one for flug and the other for the trumpet. In a pinch it is my instant flugelhorn if I don't bring one.
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Dave
Sonare TRC-800, Dennis Wick 1.5C
Blessing Standard, Denis Wick 1.5C
Accent TR959 CDB C tpt Stork XM2 Studio Mstr
Jupiter 846S Flug Schilke 18F
Shires Q30GR T-bone 5 / 4 CL
Yamaha YBL-421G T-bone 2 CL
Jean Baptist Euphonium Stork 4 |
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| I play a Conn Vintage one Flugelhorn and am very happy with it. |
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Selection |
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| Mikee wrote: | I am a newbie to this site. Comeback player - off for 35+ years back for 5 years now in earnest - but still a long way to go! I play in local Pops band and in church every Sunday.
I would like to buy a Flugelhorn for the more mellow sound to play in church - mostly melodies and some descants for standard hymns. Recently had a french horn join me in church for a month or so - was beautiful - trying to get closer to that sound.
There are no music stores near me that have any Flugelhorns in stock - therefore hard to try any out. I probably have more $ than sense - what should I buy (new)? Bach 183 and complete the lineup? Who stocks (in South East) many types of Flugels where I could try some out?
Any advise appreciated... |
The late great Warren Leuning played a Bach 183. Listen to the first cut on Patrick William's Sinatraland album and you'll hear him soloing on it. Warren was a mainstay in the LA Studio scene for some 40 years, a mentor to Wayne Bergeron and others. The trumpet section on that album consists of Rick Baptist, Warren Leuning (RIP), Wayne Bergeron, and George Graham (RIP). You won't regret getting the album. |
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Linda
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Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:51 am Post subject: flugel |
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Hi-I am also interested in the answers to this, and that noone has mentioned Schilke. Are they just not really considered?
(I don't have access to two thirds of the market to try the instruments I buy y because I live in a country that is dominated by Yamaha and Bach. We don't have Wild Things to try etc. My usual vendor is Lee at Chuck Levins. )
Linda
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B6L Schilke |
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Richard A
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Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: Re: flugel |
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| Linda wrote: | | Hi-I am also interested in the answers to this, and that noone has mentioned Schilke. Are they just not really considered? |
My theory is they are relatively new to the market. I have only seen one so far.
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I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: flugel |
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| Linda wrote: | Hi-I am also interested in the answers to this, and that noone has mentioned Schilke. Are they just not really considered?
(I don't have access to two thirds of the market to try the instruments I buy y because I live in a country that is dominated by Yamaha and Bach. We don't have Wild Things to try etc. My usual vendor is Lee at Chuck Levins. )
Linda |
Linda,
The Schilke is a well made instrument; beautiful to look at and to hold. The sound is quite bright. It would be good, perhaps, in a BBB setting, but not so good for the dark sound we usually like in jazz.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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maynard-46
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Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 1844
Location: GEORGIA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:40 am Post subject: Flugelhorn Selection |
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| Quote: | | Hi-I am also interested in the answers to this, and that noone has mentioned Schilke. Are they just not really considered? |
| Quote: | | The Schilke is a well made instrument; beautiful to look at and to hold. The sound is quite bright. It would be good, perhaps, in a BBB setting, but not so good for the dark sound we usually like in jazz. |
I've played 3-4 Schilke 1040 FL flugels over the years since they came out in, I think, 2013. Raw brass lacquered, silverplated etc. I've been quite happy with my lacquered Adams F5 all-copper bell as well as my Yamaha 631G...UNTIL 3 weeks ago when I ran in to another Schilke 1040FL in sliverplate. That was it! After about 5 minutes I KNEW I had to have this horn!!! My other two flugels, being VERY good horns, pale in comparison to this Schilke. It seems to play itself! In the past I haven't been to keen on the intonation on the Schilke but this one is spot on. Valves are great...has fantastic agility...VERY even from bottom to top with an upper register that's as solid as a rock. The sound is to die for.
Most of the time I agree with Brian's posts and enjoy reading them but I have to disagree this time...sorry Brian! I use Warburton flugel pieces and, since I do ALOT of flugel playing I use all 3 of the depths...an FLM, FL and FLX. I also use small diameters ...currently their "10" series. I usually use the FLM and FLX the most. When I plug in the FLX with the Schilke flug the sound is almost magical! VERY dark and it gives me that smokey sound that I look for when playing jazz. I work with a jazz trio and even the other 2 guys have commented how rich and warm sounding the horn is. The hardest thing that I've had to adjust to is the silverplating. I don't think I've played a sivler flugel since the early '70's when I was on the road and was playing a Getzen flug.
I'm VERY happy that I think I've found my "dream" flugelhorn. If you get a chance Linda try a Schilke...you might just like it! BTW...I've been talking to Lee from Chuck Levins over the past couple of weeks and he told me that he has a Schilke 1041 FL in raw brass in stock at a VERY good price. The 1041 FL is there newest model as it has an all-copper bell. Might be interesting! Good luck with your search.
Butch
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TRUMPE: SCHILKE B7 / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "RT1" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL. |
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Linda
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Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Butch-that is highly intriguing! I would like silver plate too. Though the raw brass must give a more direct tone. It is just dreadful and I have been moaning perhaps, a little too much, that in Australia we have zero distributor of Schilke nor any other brass instruments including Wild Thing or Couesnon or anything really, except Bach and Yamaha. Maybe Jupiter if we look really hard. Its very sporadic. There is no way you can go and try a number of different models of different manufacturers or with different finishes at all. You don't get to choose between much. So I have to take a punt largely based on what I read and the study I do (which is quite a bit). It seems to me that the Eclipse and the Wild Thing get consistently good ratings. I want a smokey sound, round and gentle, mellow and if possible not too heavy as I have had spinal surgery. I am dealing with Lee at the moment on a mouthpiece or two-the Schilke 14 and 14A4A which I can't get here of course. I might ask him about the flugel. Can't tell huaband....will just make little enquiries.....
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Linda
B6L Schilke |
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shademo
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Joined: 27 Apr 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Melbourne, FL
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: |
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When considering a vintage Getzen Eterna over a new Chinese or Taiwanese flugel, why wouldn't the vintage Getzen win every time? I have never owned one of the new Allora, Dillon, or ACB horns, but my instinct would be that the older horns from the 60's and 70's would be made from better metallurgy and would be easier to repair when needed.
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1940 Holton 48
1956 Connstellation 38B
1969 Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn
1970 Conn 8B
2023 CarolBrass Euro Baro (on order)
Warburton 3S, 3MCW, 4FL |
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DJtpt31
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 308
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thoughts on the following flugelhorns: ease of playing, sound profile, intonation quirks, build quality.
1) Getzen 4895L Custom Reserve
2) Edwards X-19 flugelhorn
3) Blessing BFH 1541RT
4) Jupiter 1646 RS flugelhorn
5) Bach Aristocrat flugelhorn
Thanks!
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GordonH
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:40 am Post subject: |
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My advice for buying any instrument that you don't need right now is:
Play other peoples and try out in shops.
Decide which one you want.
Wait & wait & wait until the right one comes up
Buy it.
I have done very well using this tactic. I wanted a Courtois 154, waited a couple of years and got one for £450 because it was a bit worn, although its ony about 18 years old.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
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walldaja
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:56 am Post subject: |
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It is hard to find a good horn when there aren't many available to play. I would suggest whatever horn you get get one with a third valve trigger--C# and Ds can be an intonation issue. I got a shank from Dave Harrison of Harrison Wedge mouthpieces that allows me to put my flugelhorn top on it and use it in my trumpet. Amazing difference in color. Also a lot cheaper than a flugelhorn.
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Dave
Sonare TRC-800, Dennis Wick 1.5C
Blessing Standard, Denis Wick 1.5C
Accent TR959 CDB C tpt Stork XM2 Studio Mstr
Jupiter 846S Flug Schilke 18F
Shires Q30GR T-bone 5 / 4 CL
Yamaha YBL-421G T-bone 2 CL
Jean Baptist Euphonium Stork 4 |
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1283
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Selection |
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Last edited by dstpt on Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RandyTX
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Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: Re: flugel |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | The Schilke is a well made instrument; beautiful to look at and to hold. The sound is quite bright. It would be good, perhaps, in a BBB setting, but not so good for the dark sound we usually like in jazz. |
I've never heard anyone say they wanted a flugel in a brass band to have a bright sound. I say this, having played flugel in a brass band for the last nine years. YMMV.
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giakara
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Selection |
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| maynard-46 wrote: | IMO the best "bang for your buck" is a Yamaha 631G in lacquer. I play professionally and have 3 flugels...2 "boutique" horns and the 631G and the Yamaha gets 90% of my playing time. Gorgeous sound...impeccable intonation...valves are nice...and it has the best upper register out of all of them (which I use in my playing). It can be nice and mellow or can cut thru a big band depending on the mouthpiece. Hands down you should order and try one of these 631G's. Good luck in ur search!
Butch |
+1 and for used 631 or 731.
Regards
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Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
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Getzen eterna 910 C
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Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
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DJtpt31
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 308
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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anyone played a Jupiter XO 1646RL flugelhorn? what are your thoughts on the instrument (playability, sound, shank size)?
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shofarguy
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: flugel |
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| RandyTX wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | The Schilke is a well made instrument; beautiful to look at and to hold. The sound is quite bright. It would be good, perhaps, in a BBB setting, but not so good for the dark sound we usually like in jazz. |
I've never heard anyone say they wanted a flugel in a brass band to have a bright sound. I say this, having played flugel in a brass band for the last nine years. YMMV. |
I was referencing some highly respected British bands whose videos I've watched on YT. The flugelhorn in those videos sounded, frankly, a lot like a Wild Thing Bb trumpet with a deep mouthpiece. It was not the "dark, smokey" sound of an Art Farmer or even a Serge Nakariakov. The Schilke I played sounded much more toward a trumpet sound than other brands I have played. Perhaps, that has developed and changed over the past several years.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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